Ace Attorney

[SlowPokemon]

Thoughts for the second part of Episode 3:

The Rite of Turnabout Day 1 Trial

The Rite of Turnabout Day 1 Trial

I still love the Khura'in court aesthetic. This sitar track that plays when trial starts up is so ominous and foreboding, I'm such a fan.

"In addition to being the accused, she is also my assistant" I love this

The prosecution's opening statement amounts to "I promise I will send both the defendant and defense directly to hell" this court is so goddam metal

The Judge's reaction: "Excellent, good job"

Phoenix's actual response to "go to hell": "I think I'll pass"

Maya's punishment in hell will be to be tickled for 500 million years. Yikes.

Phoenix would assume the worst form of hell would be the Hell of Back Pain.

The mist rising around the witness stand is a really cool aesthetic

The Judge and gallery start chanting that Phoenix is "pohlkunan," or, as Maya translates, "a real piece of work."

I adore the music that plays over the Divination Séance and Insight sequences. It makes it so much creepier.

This is a really tough Divination Séance. I know that the Incense is what's related to the solution but I can't figure out how.

I love this gameplay mechanic. It's so damn clever.

Phoenix, on Rayfa's special "refining a sensation" ability: "(Why have we never done this before?!)" Because that's not convenient for the plot, Phoenix. Come on.

"Never thinking ahead, you cling to the first insignificant contradiction you can muster." Damn Rayfa why you calling me out like this

I love that our entire understanding of the Insights has been turned completely around in the first part of the trial.

It's so satisfying to simultaneously shock the Judge, Rayfa, and Nahyuta.

Rayfa makes a considerably less dramatic exit this time, which actually sort of makes me feel bad for her.

I like that the Khura'inese Judge says "peace" instead of "order" when the crowd goes wild.

I also like the gavel sound in Khura'in better than the one in America.

I really enjoy that this case is steeped in Phoenix having to be accused of mocking the Khura'inist religion. It gives it a sort of tense edge.

Nahyuta thinks Phoenix's claims that the high priest could have been a rebel are no better than spitting on the Holy Mother.

Phoenix: "(Ugh... Please don't let this turn into an international incident...)" @Edgeworth

Nice alliteration in "...An eyewitness who will deliver a definitive answer that will dispel the defense's doubts."

Oh FUCK not THIS GUY

This guy's animations are really amusing and he reminds me of Mike Meekins for some reason

"A'nohn Ihmus TBD" oh boy here we go

I love the intense string tremolo before the testimony starts in Khura'in. Nice touch there

I keep reading Ihmus's voice in the same voice that Kimmy's stepdad uses in Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt (the doofus police officer dude)

I love that the Weather Forecast in the newspaper refers to the day as having "excellent prayer weather."

I wish I could get butterflies to land on my hands like Nahyuta does.

Apollo is a red pepper, and now Phoenix is...a sea urchin. Nice. Nahyuta goes on to say that the sea urchin Phoenix will become is doomed to live a brief life and be "brutally devoured by a sea otter."

Phoenix's eyes rolling back into his head after he gives his shocked animation is really quite funny.

Phoenix: "(O Holy Mother, why do I only get the annoying ones...?)" I don't know, Phoenix. I really don't know.

I love the update to Phoenix's sweating animation in this game. It's so perfect.

Ihmus's intense "Har har har har har!" laughing is actually kind of winning me over, he's such a cheerful wacky guy.

Phoenix's judgment on Igmus is that he's "sketchy as heck," which is pretty accurate.

When Ihmus does the random pose with the serpent-type arms, I love that he makes it look like the snake is opening its mouth.

I'm down to one Mitamah on this testimony. Though to be fair, the last time I lost one was because I tried to present the right part of the vision but it registered as a different place.

Officially got a game over here. I just killed Phoenix. Nice.

Okay, I am SERIOUSLY irritated. I got a game over because I presented the ritual curtain on the statement "I saw the accused stab the head priest" because I was like "ah yeah the curtain was blocking the outside." Now I find out that the correct thing is to present the curtain where he initially says "I used my binoculars to spy on the rite." This game is so weirdly obtuse, even for an Ace Attorney game.

Second belly laugh of the game: Ihmus admitting that he "didn't actually see the accused herself" just after blatantly testifying that he saw Maya stab the high priest

The localization department is killing it with these alliterative statements. "My main man Mr. Magistry" is also gold

This may be the most hilariously unreliable witness we've seen since Larry Butz. When the witness claims he wasn't at the inner sanctum, Phoenix questions "Then, what about those silhouettes you claim to have seen?" Ihmus's response: "I'm starting to think I've been imagining things!" Oh boy.

I let out a little "Aww!" at Maya's "Rah, rah, siss boom bah! Fight, fight, Phoenix Wright!"

Also adorable is Maya getting into an argument from a woman in the gallery who doubts the trustworthiness of Phoenix.

Nahyuta informing Phoenix that he's accrued 200 million extra years in hell is so hilariously harsh that I'm kind of glad Phoenix recognizes Khura'inism as stupidly strict

Maya: "Sure, what's another 200 million, give or take."

The gallery chanting "LAWYERS ARE SCARY" is so Ace Attorney. That's all I have to say about that.

Phoenix: "(There may be some bad apples, but we're not all like that, you know!)" #NotAllLawyers

This man's testimony has gone from "I climbed a nearby mountain to watch the rite" to "I was enjoying a trek through the night sky with my homemade paraglider." I don't know how this isn't some form of perjury.

If Ihmus lies again, Nahyuta will send him to the Hell of Hangnails, where he'll have hangnails grown and ripped out for 800 million years. Yikes.

Clever about presenting the weather report to contradict claiming the wind was blowing. I feel pretty accomplished.

Maya: "That saying is pretty cool, but I've never heard it"
Phoenix: "yeah I just made that up lmfao"

I like how Are'bal's pose goes from stupid to threatening so fast.

HE LITERALLY SAYS IT WAS ALL A BLATANT LIE I HATE THIS GUY

NAHYUTA IS A FORMER REBEL??? YIKES

Phoenix: "(What was the point of all that, anyway?")
Judge: "Well, I can't help but feel that entire episode was an enormous waste of time."
I agree with both of them unfortunately

I find it kind of funny that Nahyuta calls out Phoenix on not bothering to learn basic Khura'inese before coming to Khura'in.

Phoenix internally letting off a "damn it!" is really jarring; he doesn't usually swear.

Great I fucking killed them

"If Ms. Fey is indeed a serial killer" oh my god ace attorney why

I bet the victim is Puhray Zeh'lot based on his lack of character model yet still being named

Finally a section of acceptable length nice

[close]

[mastersuperfan]

I've finished Case 4, and am partway through the investigation of Case 5, Day 1 (which is really really long, even longer than every other section so far).

My thoughts on Case 4:

Case 4 Spoilers

No clue what was going on in the intro when I saw it (though in retrospect, IIRC, it was probably Uendo and his personalities speaking)

omg Blackquill is back

For defendants so far, we've had: Alhbi (cute little kid), Trucy (cute magician), Maya (cute spirit medium who always gets accused of murder), and now... this...

Unlike Slow, I've felt that the game so far has been pretty straightforward and obvious as to what you present where, but not so much in this case.

Holy shit it took me so long to realize that the autopsy report contradicted Uendo's testimony

HELL YEAH REMIXED ATHENA OBJECTION THEME

The rest of the case was pretty straightforward, although the part with the camels and the saké felt kind of like a leap in logic to me (seriously, I was supposed to present the camel paper message?)

Geiru's "balloons" hehe
(not surprised that they actually turned out to be real balloons...)

tbh I'd probably be annoyed at split personalities, but it actually came out pretty well (just as how the twins reveal in Case 2 didn't piss me off as a sudden twins reveal normally would...)

Wow, how convenient that OWEN 4TH and WHET NO4 are anagrams

Geiru's true form is IMO one of the better ones in series (better than, like, Andistan'dhin at least)

Felt like kind of an underwhelming Revisualization sequence to me, since it was pretty obvious at that point that the murder weapon was udon dough. I liked how Geiru tried to get rid of the weapon by feeding the food to her dog, though Blackquill's statement didn't even include that info, so how would we know to present it? Like, true, Blackquill witnessed it, but at least put it in the Court Record. (Then again, I guess it might have gave it away...)

What I think they should have done instead was put the method of disposing the murder weapon as part of the Revisualization sequence, giving a more total OH SHIT GOTCHA moment and not having to present Blackquill's statement when the info isn't actually there in the Court Record

rip balloons

I didn't actually think this case was as bad as the reviewers made it out to be; I liked it more than Case 1, to be sure, although in all honesty, it wasn't that much better. The case itself feels out of place in the game so far, with none of the high-stakes pressure that you've been facing in the previous 3 cases. Coupled with an unlikeable defendant, and it almost feels like there's no obligation to even win the trial. I'm hoping that this case will be relevant to the overarching story, but in all honesty I'm not sure how it would be.

[close]

Case 5 is shaping up to be very promising so far, even though the investigation is taking hours so far and

very minor spoilers for Case 5

we don't even have a client yet. EDIT: A murder client, specifically, because I guess Dhurke is my client now...

[close]

WOAH I JUST FINISHED THE FIRST INVESTIGATION SECTION AND THIS CASE IS AWESOME SO FAR

EDIT: I'm totally calling it...

Case 5 Day 2 Investigation

I'm totally calling that Rayfa, not Nahyuta, is the baby in the picture with Amara.

[close]

EDIT AGAIN:

Just finished the game...

This might actually be my favorite game in the series. The quality of the case-writing is the same as T&T (although Case 4 had a few parts I wish were different), but with all the visual updates, quality-of-life changes, and the fact that Apollo (perhaps my favorite character in the series) gets the spotlight, I think this beats out T&T by quite a bit.

The plot twist that

Case 5 Day 2 Trial

Dhurke was actually dead was IMO perhaps the best plot twist in the whole series. As I looked through the evidence to counter Amara's testimony and I saw Dhurke's bloodstain, it hit me like a truck... and I knew I was in for some serious shit.

[close]

Case 2 of SoJ is actually my second-favorite case in the series now, behind Case 5 of T&T.

Also, one more thing...

Case 5 Day 2 Trial

I TOTALLY

CALLED

THAT SHIT

*see previous spoiler

[close]

[Altissimo]

can someone do me a favor and tell me how the hell i get the dlc for this

like my menu screen does not have an "extras and dlc" option and i cant seem to find it on eshop

plzthxbai

[mastersuperfan]

can someone do me a favor and tell me how the hell i get the dlc for this

like my menu screen does not have an "extras and dlc" option and i cant seem to find it on eshop

plzthxbai

Have you started the story yet? The Extras and DLC option should show up.

[SlowPokemon]

can someone do me a favor and tell me how the hell i get the dlc for this

like my menu screen does not have an "extras and dlc" option and i cant seem to find it on eshop

plzthxbai

Haha it's in the manual. You need to have started episode 1 before you can get the DLC.

[Altissimo]

cool thanks!

[SlowPokemon]

Speaking of which, I'm nearly done with the game. I have 62+ hours and I'm still not done. Thank you so much Capcom for giving us so much new game 👍🏻

[SlowPokemon]

I thought I was going to finish the game last night but I hit another save point. How long is this game does it even have an end

[mastersuperfan]

I thought I was going to finish the game last night but I hit another save point. How long is this game does it even have an end

Yeah, Case 5 is super long. Like, 1-5/3-5 long, probably longer, even.

[SlowPokemon]

Finished the game. 67 hours well-spent.

Don't read until you finish

Initially I was kind of saddened by the decision the writers made to keep Apollo in Khura'in, but it was made much better by the cameo of Lamiroir during which she and Phoenix agree that it's time to tell Trucy and Apollo about their family. That's been a hanging issue over this entire game (really over Dual Destinies as well) so I'm glad they're finally taking care of that uncomfortable loose end, even if they weren't nearly as conclusive as they could and should have been. I loved the case, and this represents a major step in the right direction after Dual Destinies, which for all the things it does right gives the impression of an "ace attorney greatest hits" album. No such issue can be found with this game.

As to issues with the game, my biggest problems are both with Episode 4: the truly awful and ignorant misrepresentation of Dissociative Identity Disorder, as well as the truly outdated sexism jokes--about Athena being called a baby bird and treated as stupid or incompetent for being female, and about Geiru's breasts being the source of a lot of jokes, whether the joke is her bouncing them around or the classic and always-hilarious "men love boobs" punchline used with the judge--these issues seem taken straight from a 2001 perception of social rights and put a decidedly sour and cringe-worthy spin on an otherwise enjoyable case. Although it's implied that the sexism is inappropriate, it's basically treated as a punchline and isn't really resolved. I could forgive Mia's cases for similar issues because they were created in 2004 when feminism hadn't become such a major movement, there really is no excuse for a game created in 2016 to have this kind of thing.

Besides the fourth case's missteps, this game was also just plain too long in places, particularly in the third case, whose premise was neither interesting nor clever enough to keep me truly interested until the end, when the rather ingenious final trial almost makes up for the irrelevant and tedious slog that came before it. This was the only part of the game when I felt I was forcing myself to continue without really wanting to. In addition, the lack of save points in this incredibly dense game really was a detriment--if a trial is lasting for five hours and there's no good place to stop in the middle, it can make for a very confusing and grueling time. Oddly, the only episode that used save points effectively was the second half of the fifth one, where the investigation and trial are both split into three nicely-sized chapters.

And need I even talk about Maya? Though I'm glad the writers didn't rely on fanservice to make a compelling plot, this is one area that would definitely have benefited from rethinking. We never really get a proper Maya/Phoenix interaction outside of some cute trial assistance in episode 3, because the game frustratingly delegates her to damsel in distress in another lazy and mildly sexist move. Maya being the defendant again just sort of elicited a disappointed sigh, but blatantly using the kidnapping plot from 2-4 was a downright groan. It worked for the plot, and I didn't mind so much because of the way it was justified, but they really needed to give Maya a better and bigger role here. She doesn't deserve this kind of character writing, especially after how pleasing and enjoyable her treatment was in the Professor Layton game of all things.

Overall, it's a solid game, definitely the best since Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney and perhaps even surpassing that. I'd give it a solid 9.0/10.

[close]

I'll talk more about the game at some point.

[Maelstrom]

How does it stand compared to the other games in the series, both in terms of story and difficulty?
I haven't had a chance to play it yet.

[SlowPokemon]

Terms of story, it's the best game since AJAA and maybe even surpasses that. Certainly leagues ahead of Dual Destinies. It's also the most difficult game in the franchise, which was really satisfying. I got legitimately stuck two or three times. The problem is that this is a bigger issue now: knowing what to prove, but not knowing exactly how to prove it. There are legitimately several times when multiple ways SHOULD work, but only one does.

[Maelstrom]

Ehhh, I think we always disagreed on how good AJ actually was, but, if it's on the same level as T&T and Investigations 2, and it's challenging to boot, I will definitely need to pick this up.

And lol at IGN giving it a 6.6
They seriously hate VNs.

[SlowPokemon]

IGN is hilariously incompetent and not to be taken seriously

[mastersuperfan]

Finished the game. 67 hours well-spent.

Don't read until you finish

Initially I was kind of saddened by the decision the writers made to keep Apollo in Khura'in, but it was made much better by the cameo of Lamiroir during which she and Phoenix agree that it's time to tell Trucy and Apollo about their family. That's been a hanging issue over this entire game (really over Dual Destinies as well) so I'm glad they're finally taking care of that uncomfortable loose end, even if they weren't nearly as conclusive as they could and should have been. I loved the case, and this represents a major step in the right direction after Dual Destinies, which for all the things it does right gives the impression of an "ace attorney greatest hits" album. No such issue can be found with this game.

As to issues with the game, my biggest problems are both with Episode 4: the truly awful and ignorant misrepresentation of Dissociative Identity Disorder, as well as the truly outdated sexism jokes--about Athena being called a baby bird and treated as stupid or incompetent for being female, and about Geiru's breasts being the source of a lot of jokes, whether the joke is her bouncing them around or the classic and always-hilarious "men love boobs" punchline used with the judge--these issues seem taken straight from a 2001 perception of social rights and put a decidedly sour and cringe-worthy spin on an otherwise enjoyable case. Although it's implied that the sexism is inappropriate, it's basically treated as a punchline and isn't really resolved. I could forgive Mia's cases for similar issues because they were created in 2004 when feminism hadn't become such a major movement, there really is no excuse for a game created in 2016 to have this kind of thing.

Besides the fourth case's missteps, this game was also just plain too long in places, particularly in the third case, whose premise was neither interesting nor clever enough to keep me truly interested until the end, when the rather ingenious final trial almost makes up for the irrelevant and tedious slog that came before it. This was the only part of the game when I felt I was forcing myself to continue without really wanting to. In addition, the lack of save points in this incredibly dense game really was a detriment--if a trial is lasting for five hours and there's no good place to stop in the middle, it can make for a very confusing and grueling time. Oddly, the only episode that used save points effectively was the second half of the fifth one, where the investigation and trial are both split into three nicely-sized chapters.

And need I even talk about Maya? Though I'm glad the writers didn't rely on fanservice to make a compelling plot, this is one area that would definitely have benefited from rethinking. We never really get a proper Maya/Phoenix interaction outside of some cute trial assistance in episode 3, because the game frustratingly delegates her to damsel in distress in another lazy and mildly sexist move. Maya being the defendant again just sort of elicited a disappointed sigh, but blatantly using the kidnapping plot from 2-4 was a downright groan. It worked for the plot, and I didn't mind so much because of the way it was justified, but they really needed to give Maya a better and bigger role here. She doesn't deserve this kind of character writing, especially after how pleasing and enjoyable her treatment was in the Professor Layton game of all things.

Overall, it's a solid game, definitely the best since Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney and perhaps even surpassing that. I'd give it a solid 9.0/10.

[close]

I'll talk more about the game at some point.

In my opinion, this game is a lot easier than T&T. I will admit that the game is not easy; it's just that T&T was so hard that nothing really seems to come close. It's probably the second-hardest game in the series, but there's a pretty wide gap between this and T&T.

IMO it's also the best game in the series. T&T was awesome, but it was made a bit worse with the difficulty sometimes bordering on insanity (looking at you, 3-3 investigation), and some crazy bullshit logic moments (looking at you, 3-5, as much as I love you). SoJ doesn't really have any of that, not from I can recall.

My responses to some of Slow's comments:

Full Game Spoilers

I'm also bothered by the DID thing in Case 4, but I think you're over-exaggerating the sexism thing a bit much. I don't think any of the criticism towards Athena was related to her gender at all; the comments of "baby bird" and making a point of her incompetence were due to her lack of experience as a lawyer. Granted, it did bother me a bit much how incapable they made Athena seem, but it didn't seem to me like anything you said.

I can see where you're coming from with the sexism about Geiru; I personally didn't think it was that bad myself because there are women out there who get breast implants and the like to look more "appealing." She was the one character with this trait about her; if it were most of the characters, it'd be a problem for me as well, but that's not really the case here. (Well, I guess there is that close-up shot of Ga'ran in Case 5...)

I actually enjoyed Case 3 greatly and didn't think it was too long in the slightest. I really enjoyed the twists and the investigations as well. Admittedly, it was a bit predictable, but that didn't stop it from being a great case in my eyes. From what I've seen in other communities, this case is really a love-or-hate kind of thing.

Sure, maybe you thought Maya didn't play much a role, but I think it was fine. Consider this: if Maya had been given a bigger role, then someone else's screen time would likely have to be shortened or less developed. I loved every single bit of Apollo's development, and they had to put Athena somewhere, so where else would Maya go? Sure, they could change the cases up to accommodate that, but I love the cases as they are now. I suppose the kidnapping again is kinda meh, but they still changed it up from last time, too.

My main complaints go to Case 4 (though not necessarily to the parts you mentioned); the case felt a bit uninteresting at points, the murder and its execution weren't terribly creative, and there were plenty of logic leaps while trying to solve the case. Plus, the stakes were high in Cases 1, 2, 3, and later 5, too, but Case 4 feels a bit out of place when you don't really feel inclined to like the defendant at all. It seems that the case was meant for comic relief, but it didn't succeed terribly well in that department.

[close]