TWG L: Zombies! Post Game

[vermilionvermin]

I'll make a more in-depth post game later tonight (I promise!) but for now here is part of the postgame.

TWG:  Zombies!

Wolves

1.  Master Wolf:  Yugi
2.  Wolf Shaman:  Davy (Wolf MVP)
3.  Wolf Totem:  Bubbles

Humans

4.  Guardian:  BlackDragonSlayer
5.  Seer:  The Boy Who Cried Wolf
6.  Vigilante:  Bird (Human MVP)
7.  Human:  Wolf
8.  Human: Spitllama (received guardian powers later)
9.  Human:  Blueflower999
10.  Human:  Dude
11.  Human:  Thiannon
12.  Human:  K-Night
13.  Human:  TheZeldaPianist275

Zombies

14.  Zombie Leader:  MaestroUGC
15.  Grave Robber:  FSM-Reapr (Zombie MVP)
16.  Totem Guy:  Mashi

Night 1
Wolves wolf Spitllama
BlackDragonSlayer guards Bird
Bird vigi's nobody
TBWCW seers Maestro
Davy seers Maestro
Mashi does not leave a Totem
Bubbles does not leave a Totem
Bird sends the conch to BlackdragonSlayer

Day 1
Bubbles is lynched
Bubbles guesses Mashi as the Totem Guy

Night 2
TBWCW seers FSM
Davy seers Mashi
BDS puts Thiannon and blueflower's names into the totem and sends it to Davy
Wolves wolf TZP
Maestro bites Bubbles
FSM revives nobody
BDS guards Davy

Day 2
Mashi was lynched

Night 3
Wolves wolf Dude
Bird vigi's K-Night
FSM revives spitllama
Maestro bites nobody
TBWCW seers wolf
BDS guards davy
davy puts K-Night's and FSM's names into the conch
davy seers wolf

Day 3
Yugi is lynched

Night 4
Bird (finally, he almost did it every night before) vigi's davy
Wolves wolf BDS
FSM revives Bubbles

Day 4
Humans finally lynch Maestro (Bird had almost vigi'd him four times)
spitllama becomes guardian

Night 5
Bubbles wolfs Toby

Day 5
Bubbles is lynched

Night 6
Bubbles is revived

Day 6
Blueflower is lynched

Night 7
FSM revives davy
Bubbles wolfs spitllama

Day 7
FSM is lynched

Night 8
Bird is wolfed

Player Analyses

1.  BlackDragonSlayer:  Being so trusting of Bird Night 1 was a really poor decision that easily could have backfired on you.  There was no reason for you to tell him you were the guardian.  Had he not been a human, it would have really damaged the human team.  Luckily things worked out there and you didn't end up hurting anything, but what you did was risky and had no forseeable benefit in a game where nobody's going to counterclaim Guardian.  Outside of that play, you were pretty reserved. 

2.  Yugi:  I really liked the decision to claim Grave Robber.  It got Waddle to drop a hint that he might be the Grave Robber, made Mashi panic and counterclaim you, and in general made this game pretty difficult for the zombies.  It also significantly increased your chances of being seered, a good thing as the Master Wolf.  I think there's a case for you to be wolf MVP, but I gave it to Davy for reasons I'll explain in his section.  An all-around solid wolf performance--it's unfortunate that people thought you were a zombie!

3.  MaestroUGC:  Your disappearing really hurt the Zombies, who might otherwise have had a pretty good shot at winning this game.  Biting spitllama and/or Bubbles could have helped you take out humans or other influences.

4.  spitllama:  This is going to be a pretty short analysis because you were dead when all the major decisions were made during the game.  You did a good job laying low as the guardian, but you seemed a little bit lost as to where the game was going.

5.  Thiannon:  You're probably disappointed in how this turned out, but you actually played pretty well!  You made the strongest case for lynching FSM, and your posts were by far the most content-concentrated of any player.  While you only posted once on Day 1, it was a big post containing a lot of thoughts and ended up lynching a wolf!

6.  davy:  I gave you Wolf MVP not only because you seemed to be the wolf who was calling the shots but because you were a really convincing seer.  This game would probably have gone to the humans if that conch had released its names, but you made sure it didn't by being a convincing seer claim.  You also found the graverobber on Night 1/early Day 1, which is pretty impressive!  The best wolves don't blend in; they stand out because they look like they're helping the human team.  It's really easy to lynch someone who's blending in.  It's much harder to lynch someone who stands out as helpful.  I think you did a really good job of that his game, and I'm scared of facing wolf davy!

7.  The Boy Who Cried Wolf

8. blueflower999:  Your lynch really hurt the humans at the end of the game.  Had that lynch been on FSM rather than you, this would be a different postgame.  The lesson to be learned here is to, as Thiannon puts it, "kick and scream" when you're being lynched.  If you say nothing when being lynched, nobody's going to change their mind.  Kicking and screaming allows for more activity and discussion, and it can't really hurt your chances of getting lynched.  At the very least it makes you look good in the postgame because you didn't stand idly by while being lynched, which unfortunately is pretty frequent!

9. K-NiGhT

10. TheZeldaPianist275:  You were the human who got to play the least this game because spitllama got revived and you didn't.  What I forgot about this game until I reread it was that you were the one who started the Bubbles lynch.  Even if you didn't last long, it was all I can ask and more from a pretty new player who only had one day phase.

11. Bubbles7689

12. Bird:  You killed Blueflower and K-Night, two people who had done nothing to indicate that they were human.  Every single one of your other kills was a wolf or a zombie.  That's absolutely fantastic.  The only decision I can really criticize you for is the decision to give the conch to davy rather than just putting either his or TBWCW's name in it because the conch distinguishes between specials and normal humans! 

13. Mashi:  You couldn't really help being seered purple, but a lot of what you did afterwards could easily have been done via Totem, which would have given Maestro 1 or more killers to work with.  You were also pretty brilliant at helping FSM cover his tracks with his false claim, which fooled the humans long enough to give your team a chance!

14. Dude:  Died pretty early, and didn't ever get revived.  Only got to make a safety before then.

15. wolf:  Be more active.  If the humans hadn't already figured out who the wolves were, they probably would have lynched you.

16. FSM-Reapr

General Comments

On whether or not the wolves should have won, I think people are forgetting that a lot didn't go the wolves' way early in the game.  The Bubbles lynch honestly could have fallen on one of a few inactive humans.  Yugi was suspected of being a Zombie rather than a wolf, and davy convinced bird that he was the real seer!  All in all, the wolves played pretty well.

On the other hand, a few humans had some pretty great games too.  That's pretty much guaranteed when only two of the kills that were in human hands were against humans.  Think about that for a second.  That's normally good enough for the humans to win in a normal setup, let alone one where there are six non-humans!  Unfortunately, the humans were bogged down by a lot of inactives, which made it harder to differentiate the wolves and zombies from the humans.  In general, it's really hard to defend yourself as an inactive because you have no posts or actions which indicate your humanity.

The zombies lost because they were a team designed around cooperation and they didn't cooperate, simple as that.  FSM had a great individual performance--but he needed Maestro to make kills, and both of them needed Mashi to unite them earlier with a Totem.

I'm a little disappointed that people didn't take greater advantage of the death post mechanic, and probably won't be using it in the future.  The goal was to have people who were dead decide whether to use it early to prove themselves human or use it late in order to give crucial insight on an important lynch late in the game.  And everyone decided to use it right after they died!  I might have missed it if there was one, but I didn't see a suspicion list anywhere.  This was supposed to be better than a cardflip for the humans, but it turned out to just be a delayed version of a cardflip.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Can you please change your vote to yugi? You can gloat all you want in the post game if I'm wrong, but I really just think FSM is human.

Under normal situations, I would gloat, but I have something to say:
I think, in this game, I wasn't as... forceful... as I usually am... I regret that I felt sort of like I just followed Bird around like his little "pet guardian" instead of doing what I... er... usually do.
Essentially: if I hadn't backed down, we might have lynched FSM, and then dealt with the wolves.

EDIT: And another example: I was highly considering sending the conch to TBWCW... I think it might've been better if I had... eh...

[Bird]

Good game everyone!

I actually think all the teams played pretty equally, despite my comments to the contrary during the TWG. We all have a part to play when the game is afoot, and mine required me to act like the humans had done way better than the wolves!

I'm really not proud of my performance this game. I made two mistakes pretty early on that basically doomed the human team's chances of winning. The first was publicly revealing Mashi to be the zombie leader. That whole day phase was a mess, it would have been way smarter to silently take him out during a night phase. Although I couldn't have known that his name was guessed by the wolves (since I think BDS forgot to send his totem names in), it allowed the zombies to join up or at least identify who should be made into a follower.

The second huge mistake I made was trusting davy over The Boy Who Cried Wolf. To those who don't know, both of those players had claimed seer to me, and I was trying to figure out which one to give the magic conch to. I figured that this would allow me to determine which one of them was the false claimer. And to be fair, it did do that. But I trusted davy (who did a stupendous job of looking human early in the game) over TBWCW and gave him the conch. So it didn't release any names. This deprived the human team of any means of determining who the zombies and master wolf were, which really screwed us over in the end-game! It would have been smarter to just give the conch to human-seeming players, since that also would have protected the identities of the specials.

Besides that, I don't have a lot of regrets. Even though I messed up when I trusted FSM and davy, I think that given the evidence, they were reasonable decisions. Everything else played out pretty much how I wanted it to. I don't really regret lynching blueflower999 or killing k-NiGhT either, since those also made sense given the evidence. The humans probably would have done a bit better if they'd all been active, but that's apparently not something that can be helped here.

The wolves did a better job than they were given credit for, but it as still happenstance that led to them winning. FSM is super annoying, since his revives did nothing but deprive the humans from their victory, but I guess I don't really care that much. No hard feelings.

Other things? The seer should have been the alliance leader. People should listen to Thiannon. And this game was probably the best-designed three team game I've ever encountered and it still managed to disappoint in the end! And that's saying something.

[Bubbles]

Davy said it somewhere in the thread, but Im too lazy to find it

From now on in any game, if I'm the slightest bit inactive people will accuse me of being a wolf -.- gl 2 me

[BlackDragonSlayer]

The only thing wrong with the game's layout is the fact that there's a reviver on the third team, and the human victory condition required the entire third group to be wiped out (which opens up a "slight" exploitation).

I, personally, think that there should've been a limit to the third-party reviver's power: such as, you can only revive each person once. In the end, the fate of the game rested in the reviver's power (FSM!!!), which turns their position into a sort of evil-overlord-gamesmaster, until they're lynched.


I'll be back to my "usual routine" next game, I promise!! Even if I'm a wolf!!

[TheZeldaPianist275]

Bird, I really don't understand why this game was so disappointing.  That little spat you had with FSM was just part of playing.

[Bird]

The FSM thing had nothing to do with why the game was disappointing. It was disappointing because it was really well-designed and all the teams played really well, but the team that won just happened to win through conflict between the other two teams.

[MaestroUGC]

I've done the third party thing before, I wasn't excited to do it again. My plan was to just lay low and act in the shadows, but Mashi's plan put the kibosh on that. So, since the forces were against me I just resigned to my fate and sat back and watched.

I make a much better villain than I do a chaotic neutral.

[TheZeldaPianist275]

The FSM thing had nothing to do with why the game was disappointing. It was disappointing because it was really well-designed and all the teams played really well, but the team that won just happened to win through conflict between the other two teams.

Okay.  You can't attack a three-team game just based on that though.

FSM, way to be a jer by tricking Wolf into voting. >__>  But you played well.

Wolf.... I don't really know how to say this, but I don't think you understand TWG.  You should re-read the rules, and here are a couple points:

1) Every day phase, EVERY player has to vote.  I know you technically don't have to, but you SHOULD unless you have a really, REALLY good reason not to.

2) You were a human this game.  THAT MEANS YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HELP THE HUMANS.  Not just say you're not a zombie, that basically tells the rest of us you're a wolf.  Please just stop lurking in the background and actually participate.

SocialFox..... nice job.  I think I have underestimated you.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

I've done the third party thing before, I wasn't excited to do it again. My plan was to just lay low and act in the shadows, but Mashi's plan put the kibosh on that. So, since the forces were against me I just resigned to my fate and sat back and watched.

I make a much better villain than I do a chaotic neutral.

I actually think being a third-party is kind of fun... if you don't have any teammates... or somebody doesn't seer you...

SocialFox..... nice job.  I think I have underestimated you.

Yugi-Fox is a really good player when he puts his full effort into it. :K

[FSM-Reapr]

FSM, way to be a jer by tricking Wolf into voting. >__>  But you played well.

I'm not sure what you mean by this...?


This was probs my strongest performance to date. It's not easy to try and win the game when all you can do is to revive people!

Also, just to make this clear. I had to revive Bubbles to kill people for me. There were two confirmed humans, which automatically would have meant my loss if I wouldn't have revived anyone. I had to choose the scenario that gave our team the largest chance of winning. Anything else would have been bad playing.

[TheZeldaPianist275]

Sorry, I meant jerk. Which you were. 

[FSM-Reapr]

I played for my own team the entire game. There's nothing jerkish about that. Also I offered to help the humans to win in the situation where I knew I had absolutely no chance of winning! But oh well.

[Yugi]

Wait I just noticed something.

Has TZP even won a game yet?

[TheZeldaPianist275]

...... no........