Politics

[FireArrow]

Just thought I'd add that little bit.

Protip: Don't post in a thread labeled politics or religion if you don't want people disagreeing with you.

[Sebastian]

Protip: Don't post in a thread labeled politics or religion if you don't want people disagreeing with you.

That's not the problem.

[Dudeman]

Of course not. The problem is posting something in public and then telling people to talk to you privately about it. That's unreasonable.

[braix]

I get butthurt about religeous stuff pretty easily so I try to avoid reading stuff in this topic at all, else a war would start and/or I'll forever be known as stupid and senseless

[Dude]

@mlf telling us to stop

[Altissimo]

If you don't want to talk about this stuff, avoid the damn topic.

[Sebastian]

I get butthurt about religeous stuff pretty easily so I try to avoid reading stuff in this topic at all, else a war would start and/or I'll forever be known as stupid and senseless

This says it all^

The problem is posting something in public and then telling people to talk to you privately about it.

I said this because I didn't want to talk about it then. I was busy.
I didn't say it cause I wanted everyone to not talk about it. I just don't have time to respond so I suggested talking about it later on skype.
Doesn't matter.

Obviously, I'm always the "match in the gas can" about everything. I just won't talk then.

[Ruto]

stirring the pot

Claim CF001:

The second law of thermodynamics says that everything tends toward disorder, making evolutionary development impossible.
Source:

Morris, Henry M., 1974. Scientific Creationism, Green Forest, AR: Master Books, pp. 38-46.
Response:

The second law of thermodynamics says no such thing. It says that heat will not spontaneously flow from a colder body to a warmer one or, equivalently, that total entropy (a measure of useful energy) in a closed system will not decrease. This does not prevent increasing order because

the earth is not a closed system; sunlight (with low entropy) shines on it and heat (with higher entropy) radiates off. This flow of energy, and the change in entropy that accompanies it, can and will power local decreases in entropy on earth.
entropy is not the same as disorder. Sometimes the two correspond, but sometimes order increases as entropy increases. (Aranda-Espinoza et al. 1999; Kestenbaum 1998) Entropy can even be used to produce order, such as in the sorting of molecules by size (Han and Craighead 2000).
even in a closed system, pockets of lower entropy can form if they are offset by increased entropy elsewhere in the system.
In short, order from disorder happens on earth all the time.

The only processes necessary for evolution to occur are reproduction, heritable variation, and selection. All of these are seen to happen all the time, so, obviously, no physical laws are preventing them. In fact, connections between evolution and entropy have been studied in depth, and never to the detriment of evolution (Demetrius 2000).

Several scientists have proposed that evolution and the origin of life is driven by entropy (McShea 1998). Some see the information content of organisms subject to diversification according to the second law (Brooks and Wiley 1988), so organisms diversify to fill empty niches much as a gas expands to fill an empty container. Others propose that highly ordered complex systems emerge and evolve to dissipate energy (and increase overall entropy) more efficiently (Schneider and Kay 1994).

Creationists themselves admit that increasing order is possible. They introduce fictional exceptions to the law to account for it.

Creationists themselves make claims that directly contradict their claims about the second law of thermodynamics, such as hydrological sorting of fossils during the Flood.

Source: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CF/CF001.html

[close]

Nah, not interested in a skype chat with a bunch of kids. Dude's got a point, if you find you're unintentionally getting in trouble by talking repeatedly, stop talking and think about what you did wrong. Stop asking me to contact you/share contact info, it's borderline harassment and I don't need to deal with more problems.

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

@MLF

If you don't want to talk about this stuff, avoid the damn topic.

[Ruto]

I have an idea, let's get back on topic.

[mikey]

I'm really confused, what does thermodynamics have to do with evolution? Genetic changes over time cannot result in diversification because energy cannot be created nor destroyed? Evolution can't occur because entropy can only increase in a closed system?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how your argument is any different than trying to bake cookies with a calculator.

Also what's with your aversion to posting in these threads? You like post twice then tell everyone to stop talking and move to skype.

except for god

http://www.wikihow.com/Deal-with-Condescending-People
yes i see the irony in this

I think mlf's point here was that the Big Bang as it's currently postulated is literally creating matter

[FireArrow]

I think mlf's point here was that the Big Bang as it's currently postulated is literally creating matter

I'm not too knowledgeable on the big bang, so if any astrophysics buffs wanna correct me go ahead. But I'm pretty sure the big bang is the theory that the entirety of everything was all compressed down into a single point, aka a singularity (somewhat like a blackhole.)

Keep in mind that scientists are as good as 100% sure evolution is the cause of both humans and species (which was the previous topic at hand, why I assumed mlf was referring to thay.) Theories on the creation of the universe and biogenesis (big bang, amino acids formation, etc.) are completely unrelated and are nothing more than hypotheses and or guesswork.

[Pianist Da Sootopolis]

The Big Bang does no such thing. I'm not even an expert this is just basic knowledge of the theory.
The Big Bang simply states that at the beginning of time matter was pressed into a single point of infinite density, and that it essentially exploded and the matter clumped together (if you will) and formed our universe.
It gives no explanation of HOW that matter got there, but if your God only gives answers because of a gap in the knowledge of science, he's gonna be going away pretty fast, because scientists solve these questions very quickly.

[Yellow]

all compressed down into a single point, aka a singularity

Actually, if I remember correctly, Stephen Hawking apparently did some maths involving something called imaginary time (think imaginary numbers represented on a 2 dimensional plane... let me just find a picture.)


If I read correctly a while back, apparently accounting for imaginary time makes the big bang thing not a singularity or whatever.

[FireArrow]

Actually, if I remember correctly, Stephen Hawking apparently did some maths involving something called imaginary time (think imaginary numbers represented on a 2 dimensional plane... let me just find a picture.)


If I read correctly a while back, apparently accounting for imaginary time makes the big bang thing not a singularity or whatever.

Bleh, sounds like a bunch of stuff I'll never understand unless I become a 4 dimensional being. That's pretty interesting though, I need to go edumacate myself.