[MUL] The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - "Twilight" by Bloop

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: The Legend of Zelda
Game: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Console: Multiplatform
Title: Twilight
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Bloop

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[Bloop]

Again, sorry updaters

[Kricketune54]

Jazzy

Was wondering, what is this symbol? I have never seen before



When you have the dynamics over the RH part, is that for lack of space or is it because the LH notes are held and not moving?  Ex. m4

Never played Twilight Princess or really listened to its music but your arrangements intrigue me haha

[Bloop]

Those are note clusters! Clusters are a group of notes that are very close to eachother. There are different kinds of notation for note clusters, but I went for this to imply "just press your hand softly on the lowest notes of the piano for a ominous sounding effect". I placed them in places where I heard the low, sampled, unintelligible strings part surging in volume for a bit.

The dynamics over the R.H. are there because they strictly apply to that hand. Placing them between the staves may imply that the L.H. chords change in dynamics too, but they don't.

Never played Twilight Princess or really listened to its music

Spoiler

[close]

I think it's my second favourite Zelda game and may even be my favourite Zelda soundtrack, so if you're interested in playing Zelda games, this one should be on your list ^^
Thank you though! I hope it helped you learn something

[Static]

 :PIt's like some demonic version of the PS2 intro...

- A lot of your dynamics are a tad close to each other/other notes/text, mainly on pages 1-2. I'd adjust the spacing of that a bit. Also try to align these horizontally, when you have the space for it (most of the time you do).
- In the opening, I hear the chromatic line start one step lower, D in the LH and G in the RH.
- Is there a reason you have the opening figure in m2 written as normal 16ths rather than with quintuplets? Since it's rubato anyway, I don't think there would be much of a difference in how this is played, and each instance of that line sound the same in the original.
- The chord in m1-2 is an Absus chord - the lower Db should be moved to Eb.
- m2: The pianissimo is intersecting the crescendo in the PDF. I'm not sure if the PDF is an earlier revision, or if you're using the default Finale PDF exporter (which I wouldn't recommend due to formatting and alignment issues like this), but the PDF seems to be the only file affected.
- Those chords starting in m4 LH sound like just every note in a major scale to me except the root. For example, the first one I hear as D-Eb-F-G-A-C-D-Eb (bottom to top), all clustered together. Obviously thats not possible to play, but if you cut out the lower ones, it becomes possible. Even if you do F-G-A-C-D-Eb, that's six notes but still possible to play with one hand by playing multiple white keys with one finger. Some transpositions won't work like that though. It's hard to really pinpoint what notes in this "chord" are the most "important", but the ones that sound the most distinct to me is G-A-D-Eb. I guess just play around with it and pick what sounds good to you.
- Slur in m5/12 RH is touching the ties below it
- The 2nd layer in m20/22/24/48/50/52/54 LH sounds closer to A-Bb-C
- Maybe move the diminuendo down in m21 so it's not so close to the pedal text
- m23-24 LH: It's a bit hard to tell, but I'm getting something more like this:

The A definitely sounds like it's the lowest note in m23, but the other voices, especially in m24 are hard to make out clearly
- When you have 3 staves for a solo piece, you still only need measure numbers on the top staff. You only need the extra set for duets.
- m24-25 LH: Align the text with the dynamics
- Tenuto in m25 (middle staff) is touching the tie
- The bottom ledger line in those LH clusters isn't quite the same length as the others, but I'm not entirely sure why.
- The half notes in m29 (middle staff) should be F-F#
- pianissimo is touching the staccato in m35
- m49 RH: First two 16ths should be A-Bb

Overall looks very solid, that middle section is all sorts of crazy, but I think you picked out the most important lines to write out explicitly. There's a lot of freedom here when it comes to the clusters that'll fill in all the gaps when this is played live.

[Bloop]

- Is there a reason you have the opening figure in m2 written as normal 16ths rather than with quintuplets? Since it's rubato anyway, I don't think there would be much of a difference in how this is played, and each instance of that line sound the same in the original.

Not really, the reason it isn't a quintuplet is because I didn't know/realize it was like that in the rest of the track when I arranged the intro lol. Changed it tho!

- m2: The pianissimo is intersecting the crescendo in the PDF. I'm not sure if the PDF is an earlier revision, or if you're using the default Finale PDF exporter (which I wouldn't recommend due to formatting and alignment issues like this), but the PDF seems to be the only file affected.

oh i didn't know there were troubles with finales default exporter. I used something else now, which I think works better?

- Those chords starting in m4 LH sound like just every note in a major scale to me except the root. For example, the first one I hear as D-Eb-F-G-A-C-D-Eb (bottom to top), all clustered together. Obviously thats not possible to play, but if you cut out the lower ones, it becomes possible. Even if you do F-G-A-C-D-Eb, that's six notes but still possible to play with one hand by playing multiple white keys with one finger. Some transpositions won't work like that though. It's hard to really pinpoint what notes in this "chord" are the most "important", but the ones that sound the most distinct to me is G-A-D-Eb. I guess just play around with it and pick what sounds good to you.

I'll admit I used a midi to find out what some of these notes are, because I had a hard time figuring out what notes were in those chords. I think I'll leave them as is though: the only notes I can really pick out from the first chord are the top/bottom note, a G and a C, which could be because I'm used to hearing those in my arrangement already, but I don't seem to hear the A and D that well. This position also includes most notes of the what you said, while at the same time doubling the top note an octave below to bring out the melody more.

- The 2nd layer in m20/22/24/48/50/52/54 LH sounds closer to A-Bb-C

i'm starting to hear all kinds of different stuff in the first layer too. stupid microtonal stuff
What I have now seems pretty close and at the same time scarily dissonant so that seems to fit I think?

- m23-24 LH: It's a bit hard to tell, but I'm getting something more like this:

The A definitely sounds like it's the lowest note in m23, but the other voices, especially in m24 are hard to make out clearly

Trying to hear what those low strings are doing is a lost cause anyway lol. I rearranged the notes a bit so the lower octave takes the rhythm you have in m23, and just changed the chord to a low Gsus2 chord which rumbles enough I guess. I didn't want to go too much into the middle of the bass staff with the rumbling strings, as I felt that was already too high.

- The bottom ledger line in those LH clusters isn't quite the same length as the others, but I'm not entirely sure why.

I'm not sure why either. I changed the whole cluster notation to something that I think is a bit more conventional anyway lol.

Fixed everything else!

[Static]

All your files except the PDF are for Twilit Battle... So I'll just look at the PDF for now: wow they were edited after I posted gg

- Formatting/spacing/alignment all looks much better, but the crescendo in m18 LH is touching or almost touching the staccato above it. The crescendo in m50 also seems a bit close to the slur.
- I'll take your word for those chords in m4-onwards, they're pretty tough to hear. I guess let's see if anyone else has some ideas.

i'm starting to hear all kinds of different stuff in the first layer too. stupid microtonal stuff

- This is what happens when you transcribe gamelan music for piano... I think what you have is probably the closest approximation
- To hear those low string voices in m23-24 and onwards, try listening to the sheet up an octave in Audacity or AudioStretch. What you have works though and I think more appropriately emphasizes the muddy feel of those chords.
- Filled-in cluster markings are acceptable, but the other way was fine too (aside from the ledger line thing). I'm not sure if this is standard notation for clusters, but (if you don't include the noteheads), filled cluster bars make sense for quarters and smaller, and hollow ones make sense for halves and larger - similar to jazz rhythm notation. What you have is good though.
- The tenuto in m30 should still be on the notehead side

The other changes look fine

[Bloop]

Oh whoops lol, I edited my submission again because some of the cluster notations were off by a few miniscule pixels and it bothered me. I didn't realize I had the wrong files at first haha. Fixed everything, along with a few other dynamics that were (close to) touching stuff.

[Static]

Well, I don't have much to add here, so I'll go ahead and give this one an approval

[Libera]

Well.  I think this is one of those tracks that doesn't really translate all that well to piano, but I guess it's cool that you've written it out.

-Do you actually like the C time signature?  Personally I think 4/4 is clearer, but also looks a lot better when you're swapping between 4/4 and 2/4, rather than C and 2/4.
-I don't really understand the crosshands in bars 4-19.  I mean I guess it's cool but it seems massively more awkward compared to playing the chords in the right hand and the ostinato in the left hand.
-I think I agree with Static about the chords in bars 4-17.  Obviously you can't write every note in, but I think having the "D" is more important than doubling the "Eb" (just transpose those two notes accordingly from the first chord to every other chord and you see what I mean hopefully).  Personally I think the chords sound too consonant at the moment compared to the original, so this might spice it up a bit.  Also if you use the "D" instead of the top "Eb" then it actually becomes easier to play (at least for me it was).
-I don't think the note is necessary in bar 4.  What else would you do?
-From bar 24.5 onwards you use these left hand clusters to approximate the original, but in bars 23 and the first half of 24 you try to write it out explicitly?  I'm not sure I understand the distinction between these two sections.
-The interjections in the middle staff in bars 25/28 etc. I'm not sure I understand the reasoning either.  These sound like part of the low rumblings but occasionally you try to write them in explicitly?  There are other places where similar sounding things come up and you don't write those in.  I guess I don't really understand how you're deciding what to write in and what not to since it seems pretty arbitrary at the moment.
-The game name text is too large.  It should be size 12.

I hope that helps.

[Bloop]

Well.  I think this is one of those tracks that doesn't really translate all that well to piano, but I guess it's cool that you've written it out.

That was pretty much the challenge I wanted to take on :p

-Do you actually like the C time signature?  Personally I think 4/4 is clearer, but also looks a lot better when you're swapping between 4/4 and 2/4, rather than C and 2/4.

I usually prefer using that yeah, though I don't really have a reason why, probably because of exposure to lots of classical pieces. I can agree on having it consistently be x/4 though, so I changed it!

-I don't really understand the crosshands in bars 4-19.  I mean I guess it's cool but it seems massively more awkward compared to playing the chords in the right hand and the ostinato in the left hand.

It's actually easier for the L.H. to play these chords than for the R.H., because of the way they're structured. The bottom three notes are close to each other, while there's a bigger gap between the third and top second note. The left hand has this exact spacing between fingers: pinky, ring and middle finger closer together, while the middle finger and thumb can take care of the bigger gaps. It's very tiring for the R.H. to stretch the middle and ring finger for this amount of time. There are some chords where the thumb can play two notes at once to ease the pain, but that's not possible for the first two chords.

-I think I agree with Static about the chords in bars 4-17.  Obviously you can't write every note in, but I think having the "D" is more important than doubling the "Eb" (just transpose those two notes accordingly from the first chord to every other chord and you see what I mean hopefully).  Personally I think the chords sound too consonant at the moment compared to the original, so this might spice it up a bit.  Also if you use the "D" instead of the top "Eb" then it actually becomes easier to play (at least for me it was).

The notes I currently have doubled are also doubled in the original clusters. Because of this, as well as it being the top note being the one that's doubled, I can more clearly hear this note as the melody line and the rest as cluster filling. I don't think replacing one of them with a note a semitone lower works that well: moving the top note down makes it so the melody is in the weakest finger of the L.H. (the pinky) and gets obscured by the rest of the notes. If played with the R.H., the melody would be in the thumb (the strongest finger), but then there'd still be places where it's really hard to play the chord (especially the second one). Moving the bottom note down a semitone just isn't playable by either the L.H. or the R.H.. As for the dissonance, I personally think the smaller cluster of the bottom three notes is sufficient crunchiness, but I can understand how you feel it's still a bit on the consonant side with it having no hardcore dissonant intervals.

-I don't think the note is necessary in bar 4.  What else would you do?

I wanted to prevent a situation where the player restrikes the doubled notes and holds them again, instead of just releasing them from the L.H. I'm not sure what players usually think of when they see doubled notes like this though, so my note may be a bit overkill. I've deleted it for now!

-From bar 24.5 onwards you use these left hand clusters to approximate the original, but in bars 23 and the first half of 24 you try to write it out explicitly?  I'm not sure I understand the distinction between these two sections.

It's partly because m23 and 24 weren't as intelligible as the rest of the piece, but it also makes the transition to the low clusters a bit smoother by filling in the register one to two octaves above the clusters.

-The interjections in the middle staff in bars 25/28 etc. I'm not sure I understand the reasoning either.  These sound like part of the low rumblings but occasionally you try to write them in explicitly?  There are other places where similar sounding things come up and you don't write those in.  I guess I don't really understand how you're deciding what to write in and what not to since it seems pretty arbitrary at the moment.

Those were notes that sprung out to me more than any other of the rumbling. I left them out at most places where the L.H. is busy with the lower microtonal strings parts, or when the notes would interfere with the register of this part too much. I did forgot one in in m39-40, so I added that.

-The game name text is too large.  It should be size 12.

oh huh yeah, thanks for spotting that

Anyway, thanks for the comments! I ended up not changing all that much, but I hope I've made my intentions a bit more clear!

[Libera]

I guess this is acceptable as is, although I still disagree on a few points.

[Zeta]

This submission has been accepted by Libera.

~Zeta, your friendly NSM-Bot