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Author Topic: Kricketune's Color Sheets  (Read 994 times)

Kricketune54

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« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 02:31:24 AM by Kricketune54 »
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Bloop

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2021, 07:28:49 PM »

j a z z
Nice work! Glad to see more Super Paper Mario around here :D

Here are some things I noticed:
-I think there could be some R.H./L.H. reworking in the first four bars: the R.H. can play the top octave of the L.H. in bar 1-2, and I'd switch the hands in bar 3-4 around so the hands don't have to cross. The last Bb in the current L.H. in bar 4 could stay in the L.H., so the R.H. can keep the last two dyads. It's possible for the R.H. to jump up from that Cb triplet, but you could keep the last Cb of that triplet in the L.H. to make it a bit more comfortable.
-Enharmonic spelling is a bit of a bitch in Ebm, unfortunately, because a lot of theoratically correct enharmonic spellings include double flats. I'd change all En's to Fb's and most Bn's back to Cb's, though.
-m9-13 R.H.: Maybe you could remove the lower octave from the R.H. octaves? This way, you can make a contrast between the main melody of m5-8 and the counter riff that's a bit less orchestrated in m9-13. If you wanna keep the octaves, that's fine too!
-m10 L.H.: The sixteenth-dotted eighth figure should be a triplet eighth-triplet quarter figure (like in m.14 but with a note instead of a rest). The dotted eighth-sixteenth figure afterwards should be just two (swung) eighths.
-m13: I'd move the Eb in the R.H. to the L.H., so the R.H. doesn't have to jump down two octaves.
-m14 R.H.: Nits are being picked here, but I personally prefer having the clef change just before the new note instead of before a few rests. I don't know if there's an actual rule for this, but it just seems clearer to me.
-m15: You're missing a few notes in the L.H. solo:

There are actually a bit more Cb's played, but it's rhythmically a little complicated and hard to play fast.
-m17 R.H.: There's a Eb on the rest at beat 3.3333repeating
-m18 R.H.: There should be an An grace note before the Bb on beat 3.
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Kricketune54

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2021, 05:02:11 AM »

j a z z
Nice work! Glad to see more Super Paper Mario around here :D

Haha thanks I think this is probably my sole contribution for the game but it's got some tunes  8)

Quote
Here are some things I noticed:
-I think there could be some R.H./L.H. reworking in the first four bars: the R.H. can play the top octave of the L.H. in bar 1-2, and I'd switch the hands in bar 3-4 around so the hands don't have to cross. The last Bb in the current L.H. in bar 4 could stay in the L.H., so the R.H. can keep the last two dyads. It's possible for the R.H. to jump up from that Cb triplet, but you could keep the last Cb of that triplet in the L.H. to make it a bit more comfortable.

Not really experienced in doing this personally, but I think I followed Latios's guide as far as crossing staffs goes.  Let me know if that needs to be fixed, but otherwise I followed your outlined changes.

Quote
-Enharmonic spelling is a bit of a bitch in Ebm, unfortunately, because a lot of theoratically correct enharmonic spellings include double flats. I'd change all En's to Fb's and most Bn's back to Cb's, though.
 

I think this is good now

Quote
-m9-13 R.H.: Maybe you could remove the lower octave from the R.H. octaves? This way, you can make a contrast between the main melody of m5-8 and the counter riff that's a bit less orchestrated in m9-13. If you wanna keep the octaves, that's fine too!

I liked this change; the flute notes are far more prominent than the lowers there any way.  I did keep the lower octave on m12 beat 3 because it's more audible and I figured it also leads into the repeat or 13 better.  If you think it's not worth making beat 4 more difficult in m12 though I will remove.

Quote
-m10 L.H.: The sixteenth-dotted eighth figure should be a triplet eighth-triplet quarter figure (like in m.14 but with a note instead of a rest). The dotted eighth-sixteenth figure afterwards should be just two (swung) eighths.

fixed

Quote
-m13: I'd move the Eb in the R.H. to the L.H., so the R.H. doesn't have to jump down two octaves.
-m14 R.H.: Nits are being picked here, but I personally prefer having the clef change just before the new note instead of before a few rests. I don't know if there's an actual rule for this, but it just seems clearer to me.

fixed

Quote
-m15: You're missing a few notes in the L.H. solo:

There are actually a bit more Cb's played, but it's rhythmically a little complicated and hard to play fast.
-m17 R.H.: There's a Eb on the rest at beat 3.3333repeating
-m18 R.H.: There should be an An grace note before the Bb on beat 3.


Ah thanks.  This was a tough solo to figure out




I also took off tenutos after feedback on my most recent submission (unless you thought they were good), reuploaded

Bloop

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2021, 01:17:03 PM »

Nice! You only missed a Bn to Cb at the end of m.12, but everything else is good!
There are two things I missed the first time around though:
-m.13: Now that the Eb in the R.H. is moved, you can move the clef change forward to beat 4.5 too. Now it could be confusing that there is a clef change before the repeat marking.
-m.19: The L.H. rhythm should also be a triplet eighth rest and quarter note, like in m.20
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Kricketune54

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2021, 07:15:26 PM »

Nice! You only missed a Bn to Cb at the end of m.12, but everything else is good!
There are two things I missed the first time around though:
-m.13: Now that the Eb in the R.H. is moved, you can move the clef change forward to beat 4.5 too. Now it could be confusing that there is a clef change before the repeat marking.
-m.19: The L.H. rhythm should also be a triplet eighth rest and quarter note, like in m.20

Okay that's all fixed!

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2021, 03:15:06 AM »

This is a wacky piece

  • m4 RH beat 4 I think the Bb sounds like a C; beat 4.5 is missing an F, but if you want to exclude that to make the jump easier then that's fine
  • m6/14 RH beat 4 missing Ab, and in measure 14 the low Db on beat 4 sounds like Dn instead just like measure 6
  • m8 RH beat 4.5 sounds like there's an F here too
  • m13 idk if it was just my version but the clef change here is really cramped, and it looks like measure 12 has too much extra space at the end. If this also exists in yours (or just for future reference), then you can either change it by clicking on the measures with a note, or by clicking on Utilities -> Music Spacing -> Apply Note Spacing to Current Part/Score
  • m18 add a slur between the grace note and Bb perhaps?
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Kricketune54

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2021, 05:10:16 PM »

  • m4 RH beat 4 I think the Bb sounds like a C; beat 4.5 is missing an F, but if you want to exclude that to make the jump easier then that's fine

I gave this a few listens, to me now it sounds like in the original its Cb4 and D5 on 4, and 4.5 sounds like it's Eb5 and F4.  I'd be interested to hear what others think but I made this change to m8 and m12 as well.  It sounds like just two pitches are changing both times but I could see a case for a Bb or Cb in between F and Eb on 4.5

I'm having a tough time with these two eighth notes overall haha

Quote

  • m6/14 RH beat 4 missing Ab, and in measure 14 the low Db on beat 4 sounds like Dn instead just like measure 6

Added Ab to m6/14.  I used audio stretch at 14, and I still hear Db on the bottom.  If more hear otherwise I will change though.  To me the chord is more minor sounding than the one at m6 (I hear a Db3 descending to a Cb3 as well that I did not include)

Quote
  • m8 RH beat 4.5 sounds like there's an F here too

Addressed earlier in my poast

Quote
  • m13 idk if it was just my version but the clef change here is really cramped, and it looks like measure 12 has too much extra space at the end. If this also exists in yours (or just for future reference), then you can either change it by clicking on the measures with a note, or by clicking on Utilities -> Music Spacing -> Apply Note Spacing to Current Part/Score

Fixed this it was quite cramped at 13 and m12 had extra end space haha

Quote
  • m18 add a slur between the grace note and Bb perhaps?

So turns out I had done Bloop's feedback wrong here.  The An was supposed to be on beat 3 rather than 4, but I have now fixed and slurred.  Also, I think the Bb on beat 3 that is being slurred up to should be a quarter triplet (with the eighth triplet Bb3 staying the same) so I fixed that as well.

Bloop

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2021, 07:15:05 PM »

I gave this a few listens, to me now it sounds like in the original its Cb4 and D5 on 4, and 4.5 sounds like it's Eb5 and F4.  I'd be interested to hear what others think but I made this change to m8 and m12 as well.  It sounds like just two pitches are changing both times but I could see a case for a Bb or Cb in between F and Eb on 4.5

I'm having a tough time with these two eighth notes overall haha
After some audiostretch magic, what you have is right, except there's also a Cb on 4.5

I used audio stretch at 14, and I still hear Db on the bottom.  If more hear otherwise I will change though.
I hear Db too!

Not sure what happened in m.18, but I don't see the slur, and the rhythm on beat 3 is just the same as the eighth swing, except it's now written as a tuplet. It should look like this:

Also, in m. 19 in the R.H., the An on beat 3 should be an Ab and the Bb on beat 4.333... should be a Dn above.

That should be all my comments!
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Kricketune54

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2021, 09:15:10 PM »

Just updated files after chatting pitches on Discord  8)

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2021, 09:17:57 PM »

Then I'll abloopve this one!
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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2021, 11:35:44 PM »

- I hear some extra bass notes in m2 LH:

- m4/8/12 RH beat 4.5: Middle note should be Bb instead of Cb
- m6 RH beat 4: The middle voice of these chords sounds like An-Gb to me, instead of Ab-Ab
- m7 LH beat 1.5: This Eb should be F
- m8 LH beat 3.5: This Dn should be one octave higher
- m10 RH beat 4: Feel free to add some of those extra notes from the chords that play here, it doesn't make it that much harder to play (I'm hearing An-Ab below the Cn-Db)
- m11 LH beat 1: This rhythm should look like this:

- m12 RH beat 4: I would add a Bb on top here since it's part of the melody
- m12 LH beat 2.5: The Cb should be Bb
- m13-14 LH: I hear this part a little differently:

In m14, I think some of the percussion was mistaken for bass notes, but the Cb is actually just held for awhile there.
- m14 RH beat 4: I hear these chords more like this:

- It sounds kind of weird having the voice in m16 RH leap up an octave in m17, so I'd actually suggest just raising m16 RH up an octave. The chord in m17 should also have a Db between the Bb and Eb.
- m19 LH: The Bb should be F
- m20 RH: The chords at the end of this measure should look like this:

- m20 LH beat 4: I just hear this rhythm as two 8th notes (Gn-Gb) rather than a triplet
- Swing 8th notes should line up vertically with triplet rhythms, since this is in swing (particularly since this is a pretty heavy triplet-feel swing; for light swing or fast swing I probably wouldn't make this adjustment):
Spoiler
[close]

Kricketune54

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2021, 03:22:51 AM »

- I hear some extra bass notes in m2 LH:


Audacity comin in clutch... as low and hard as they are to hear I can see how they help this rhythm.

Quote
- m4/8/12 RH beat 4.5: Middle note should be Bb instead of Cb

Quote from: Kricketune54
I'm having a tough time with these two eighth notes overall

Fixed.  Idk why this pitch is so hard for me to dissect no matter what speed or pitch I heard at

Quote
- m6 RH beat 4: The middle voice of these chords sounds like An-Gb to me, instead of Ab-Ab

Okay I hear this, fixed

Quote
- m7 LH beat 1.5: This Eb should be F

I don't hear this as an F and when I pitched up it sounded more like a Bb was there than the Eb I had.  If others hear the F though I will change.

Quote
- m8 LH beat 3.5: This Dn should be one octave higher

Fixed

Quote
- m10 RH beat 4: Feel free to add some of those extra notes from the chords that play here, it doesn't make it that much harder to play (I'm hearing An-Ab below the Cn-Db)

Added, I can see how that adds some depth and includes the "organ" there

Quote
- m11 LH beat 1: This rhythm should look like this:


Fixed

Quote
- m12 RH beat 4: I would add a Bb on top here since it's part of the melody

I did not hear this initially, thought they were being clever by not fully playing the melody phrase.  Fixed

Quote
- m12 LH beat 2.5: The Cb should be Bb

Fixed

Quote
- m13-14 LH: I hear this part a little differently:

In m14, I think some of the percussion was mistaken for bass notes, but the Cb is actually just held for awhile there.

This screenshot more or less shakes out  but I don't hear the Gn included here at 1.33333 RH in m14. I counted this out and concluded the Ab tie is only a duplet in m14 and there are two triplet eighth's in a row before the Gb.

Hahah yeah I can hear that drum as the "Bb's" in m14.

Quote
- m14 RH beat 4: I hear these chords more like this:


I don't hear this G.  To me it also sounds like Ab to An, but that there's still the Ab present like it's held over.  I don't think there's a way to really represent that though unless both Ab and An played the tied note

 
Quote
- It sounds kind of weird having the voice in m16 RH leap up an octave in m17, so I'd actually suggest just raising m16 RH up an octave. The chord in m17 should also have a Db between the Bb and Eb.
 

Yeah that part kinda screams multiple instruments mashed together for arrangement... fixed octave and added Deez flatz

Quote
- m19 LH: The Bb should be F

I hear this Bb pretty clearly in m19 LH.  Did you mean the D sounds more like an F?

Quote
- m20 RH: The chords at the end of this measure should look like this:

 

Is this raised up an octave to match the previous notes?  I'm not sure what is pictured also is adding pitches to fill out the chord because it doesn't sound like the original, and to me putting the F moving to an E on top of beat 4 is hideous even for this piece lol

Here is a screenshot of what I heard- including after playing with audacity.  I have left it in my reupload for feedback.  I figure the Db and C could move up an octave from this though? 
Spoiler
[close]

Quote
- m20 LH beat 4: I just hear this rhythm as two 8th notes (Gn-Gb) rather than a triplet

I do note hear it this way it still sounds like the way I have.  To me I hear the triplet movement despite the piece being swung and I hear the Ab on the first note of said triplet.

Quote
- Swing 8th notes should line up vertically with triplet rhythms, since this is in swing (particularly since this is a pretty heavy triplet-feel swing; for light swing or fast swing I probably wouldn't make this adjustment):
Spoiler
[close]

Fixed this alignment to emulate the picture.  Makes sense

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2021, 04:09:29 PM »

Audacity comin in clutch... as low and hard as they are to hear I can see how they help this rhythm.
My beaming was wrong here - the first 8th note (beat 1.5) should be the detached one.

Fixed.  Idk why this pitch is so hard for me to dissect no matter what speed or pitch I heard at
That's Super Paper Mario music for ya

I don't hear this as an F and when I pitched up it sounded more like a Bb was there than the Eb I had.  If others hear the F though I will change.
I'm listening it again and now it almost sounds more like Gb to me... but I definitely don't hear Eb or Bb.

This screenshot more or less shakes out  but I don't hear the Gn included here at 1.33333 RH in m14. I counted this out and concluded the Ab tie is only a duplet in m14 and there are two triplet eighth's in a row before the Gb.
Ah, yeah you're right the Gn isn't there, I think I was also mixing up some of those percussion parts too lol
For the Ab, since it's tied to the beginning of a triplet, just write that as an 8th note in m14 beat 1.

Same rhythm, less confusing to read

I don't hear this G.  To me it also sounds like Ab to An, but that there's still the Ab present like it's held over.  I don't think there's a way to really represent that though unless both Ab and An played the tied note
I'm still almost hearing a G, but I might just be going crazy... Anyways, you can write the An as Bbb here and add the Ab (this is a Cb13 chord so that would be technically correct here - Cb, Eb, Gb (maybe Gn for 13#5), Bbb, Db, Ab). With the added Ab, I don't think you should put in the Gn anyway, it sounds really weird having 3 chromatic notes all close together like that.

I hear this Bb pretty clearly in m19 LH.  Did you mean the D sounds more like an F?
I hear it as F-Dn (F on the bottom), which is what I meant to say originally but I guess I can't read

Is this raised up an octave to match the previous notes?  I'm not sure what is pictured also is adding pitches to fill out the chord because it doesn't sound like the original, and to me putting the F moving to an E on top of beat 4 is hideous even for this piece lol
That's the octave it plays in the original; this chord I actually hear more clearly when pitch-shifting the track down an octave. It sounds like two maj7 chords to me (Gbmaj7-Fmaj7), as I had written before.

I do note hear it this way it still sounds like the way I have.  To me I hear the triplet movement despite the piece being swung and I hear the Ab on the first note of said triplet.
Ah yeah I think I hear the full triplet now, but the first note sounds closer to Gn to me (Gn-Gn-Gb). It's hard to tell though and Ab sounds OK too.

The other changes look good!

Kricketune54

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2021, 05:28:19 PM »

My beaming was wrong here - the first 8th note (beat 1.5) should be the detached one.

Fixed

Quote
I'm listening it again and now it almost sounds more like Gb to me... but I definitely don't hear Eb or Bb.

Okay I hear this too, fixed.

Quote
For the Ab, since it's tied to the beginning of a triplet, just write that as an 8th note in m14 beat 1.

Fixed

Quote
I'm still almost hearing a G, but I might just be going crazy... Anyways, you can write the An as Bbb here and add the Ab (this is a Cb13 chord so that would be technically correct here - Cb, Eb, Gb (maybe Gn for 13#5), Bbb, Db, Ab). With the added Ab, I don't think you should put in the Gn anyway, it sounds really weird having 3 chromatic notes all close together like that.

Okay I have fixed to the double flat A with the Ab

Quote
I hear it as F-Dn (F on the bottom), which is what I meant to say originally but I guess I can't read


Fixed to this.  I was able to hear these pitches, not Bb after pulling it down an octave in  Audacity

Quote
That's the octave it plays in the original; this chord I actually hear more clearly when pitch-shifting the track down an octave. It sounds like two maj7 chords to me (Gbmaj7-Fmaj7), as I had written before.

Maybe my ears just can't hear that top frequency... I pitch shifted down twice and could finally hear the top pitches as Fn and En. I don't really have knowledge of how pitch is (or if) affected by modifying audio that much, but under normal listening circumstances I could not derive the chord pictured. If that's what is heard though, I have reuploaded to represent that.

Quote
Ah yeah I think I hear the full triplet now, but the first note sounds closer to Gn to me (Gn-Gn-Gb). It's hard to tell though and Ab sounds OK too.

Okay I'll keep as is then



One question I wanted to ask was at m17 beat 2 in the RH, what do you think about having a grace Dn to the Eb?  I know it's more of a pitch bend in the original than an actual grace but I think it would go well with the heavily swung feel.  Reuploaded file with this change along with others addressed in comments

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Re: Kricketune's Color Sheets
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2021, 07:20:25 PM »

My beaming was wrong here - the first 8th note (beat 1.5) should be the detached one.
Sorry if I was unclear about this, it should line up with the RH:


Okay I have fixed to the double flat A with the Ab
Adjust the Bbb tie so that the right end of it isn't so close to the chord. Preferably it should line up with the right end of the Ab tie underneath.
 
Maybe my ears just can't hear that top frequency... I pitch shifted down twice and could finally hear the top pitches as Fn and En. I don't really have knowledge of how pitch is (or if) affected by modifying audio that much, but under normal listening circumstances I could not derive the chord pictured. If that's what is heard though, I have reuploaded to represent that.
It can affect your perception a lot. I find that it's easier to pick out chord tones for really closely-voiced high chords (like this one) if the pitch is shifted down an octave; and vice-versa for low closed-voiced chords.

One question I wanted to ask was at m17 beat 2 in the RH, what do you think about having a grace Dn to the Eb?  I know it's more of a pitch bend in the original than an actual grace but I think it would go well with the heavily swung feel.  Reuploaded file with this change along with others addressed in comments
Yeah, that works nicely there, just put a slur on it like for the other grace notes.

The rest looks good!
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