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TWG CXVI: Assassin's Gambit (Game Ovev? GAMA OVAR?!)

Started by Kaiveran, September 21, 2023, 10:52:01 PM

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Toby

Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 25, 2023, 10:39:33 AM.
I disagree. I think not saying it hurts town and favors the assassins. Saying it allows town better analysis for lynch target but doesn't provide assassins with better analysis for nightkill target.
I think it does provide assassins with better analysis for a night kill, and to help with that during a night phase isn't good for town

Toby

Quote from: A# Minor on September 25, 2023, 10:45:12 AMactually, no, I said this before he even arrived


also don't forget that my vote for math was a safety (I was OK with it before I noticed someone else voted for him) :P

Fair enough you said it before

But also you did say you were comfortable with your vote on math at one point I'm sure

But at least you did suggest wanting to vote either Xiao or Davy earlier so I'll give you that

TheZeldaPianist275

QUESTION FOR THE HOST

Kai, if one assassin goes down tonight either because of a direct hit or because of a ward, does that assassin's kill still go through?

BlackDragonSlayer

Quote from: Toby on September 25, 2023, 10:59:46 AMI think it does provide assassins with better analysis for a night kill, and to help with that during a night phase isn't good for town
I disagree, for the exact reasons I said. If I thought it did, I wouldn't have said it, and I maintain that about everything I've said.

You're forgetting the fact that, with two night kills running around, there's still a very good chance I could be targeted—I'd say the only reason I wouldn't be targeted is if I was a ward, but that would only protect me from one assassin. I already shared the original inkling of my thoughts on THC (post-vote) with Specs via PM. On the off-chance that Specs is an assassin, my only other options to ensure the info gets out in the event of death is to either PM another player or post my thoughts publicly. I saw no reason not to post my thoughts on the matter publicly.

On this flipside, this is the second time I feel you've been advocating for ignorant town (i.e. withholding information town that's beneficial for town to consider). I think it's very possible you, as an assassin, were ok with either davy or mathguy being lynched.
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

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BlackDragonSlayer

I don't like the fact that you've been looking at information that's helpful for town to have and saying that it's information that's bad to share.
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

Fakemon Dex
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The Dread Somber

therealmathguy

Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 25, 2023, 10:28:12 AMConsidering there were two votes on davy for most of the phase, you did have some degree of support in an opposition lynch. You changed your vote to Toby for some reason immediately after I suggested a (openly crazy) theory about Toby being an assassin with davy as his ward and only change it significantly later. The whole vote rush at the end could've potentially been avoided had you voted for davy initially instead of Toby.
I trusted Davy more than Toby (sorry Toby) since there could be merit that Toby's lynch push for me due to inactivity could be an easy cover for me being his CT, so I was hoping some people like you and THC, who had openly expressed suspicions of Toby, would switch your votes.

TheZeldaPianist275

Math, mi amor, I feel like my first instinct on you was right after all. Riddle me this.

You claim that initially, you didn't realize the assassins knew the wards, and that made you okay with going along with Davy's plan of going gently if you're a regular human. However, you also claim that once you realized that wards were known to assassins, that soured the deal and it made you want to argue since you were on the chopping block.

What confuses me is this: given that the assassins know the wards, doesn't that make it *better* for you to allow yourself to be lynched as a regular human? A significant part of human strategy here is to put wards on the chopping block and watch who gets uncomfortable with that to try to scope out the assassins. That's a huge part of why Davy's plan could have worked (and could still work). So you say you changed your mind on the plan because you misunderstood the rules, but once you understood those rules, I think that should have made you MORE down with the plan. What gives?

Toby

Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 25, 2023, 11:17:40 AMI don't like the fact that you've been looking at information that's helpful for town to have and saying that it's information that's bad to share.

You literally PMd me helpful information you didn't want to share with the topic what are you talking about

Not all info needs to be said unless it's relevant, and especially if keeping unknown strategies or optimal play hidden is a benefit to town

BlackDragonSlayer

Quote from: A# Minor on September 25, 2023, 10:45:12 AMactually, no, I said this before he even arrived


also don't forget that my vote for math was a safety (I was OK with it before I noticed someone else voted for him) :P
That goes back to my original issue of you not seeing Toby's mathguy vote in the first place, which is something that we can't really prove or disprove either way.

And I feel like, if it were truly just a safety vote, you would've been ok with changing it earlier—but that's just how I generally view safety votes being used.

Quote from: threalmathguy on September 25, 2023, 11:18:21 AMI trusted Davy more than Toby (sorry Toby) since there could be merit that Toby's lynch push for me due to inactivity could be an easy cover for me being his CT, so I was hoping some people like you and THC, who had openly expressed suspicions of Toby, would switch your votes.
All right, that... sort of makes sense. I still feel like the original Toby vote was too... opportune, though.
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

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BlackDragonSlayer

Quote from: Toby on September 25, 2023, 11:22:49 AMYou literally PMd me helpful information you didn't want to share with the topic what are you talking about
Yes, because (as obvious as it is to say this) that was a different situation. Saying it publicly would have made a difference in that case.

QuoteNot all info needs to be said unless it's relevant, and especially if keeping unknown strategies or optimal play hidden is a benefit to town
And that does not apply in this case.
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

Fakemon Dex
NSM Sprite Thread
Compositions
Story Thread
The Dread Somber


therealmathguy

Quote from: TheZeldaPianist275 on September 25, 2023, 11:20:10 AMA significant part of human strategy here is to put wards on the chopping block and watch who gets uncomfortable with that to try to scope out the assassins.
Key sentence here. I was on the chopping block for hours but the scramble didn't happen until I changed my vote in the closing minutes. Therefore making me think I am not a ward

therealmathguy

Quote from: TheZeldaPianist275 on September 24, 2023, 08:38:04 PMWith only an hour and a half or so left in the phase, I think that at the very least, it's probably safe to say that Math isn't a ward—I think someone would have been putting up more of a fight by now if he were.
...a sentiment you seemed to share as well

XiaoMigros

Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 25, 2023, 10:24:22 AMAnd yet that's exactly what you did; the only difference is that you didn't openly call attention to it.
Your point being? I don't see how thats relevant

XiaoMigros

Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 25, 2023, 10:28:12 AMConsidering there were two votes on davy for most of the phase, you did have some degree of support in an opposition lynch. You changed your vote to Toby for some reason immediately after I suggested a (openly crazy) theory about Toby being an assassin with davy as his ward and only change it significantly later. The whole vote rush at the end could've potentially been avoided had you voted for davy initially instead of Toby.
BDS maybe I'm reading this completely wrong but it just sounds like a generic rookie move that could have done with some further thought behind it