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TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame

Started by Oricorio, November 16, 2023, 04:53:41 PM

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BlackDragonSlayer

Quote from: Oricorio on November 16, 2023, 08:27:28 PMAlright, so the game recap and player analyses are finished! So what do you think of the game? Was the hosting and balance fair, and would you play another game hosted by me in the future?
I enjoyed the concept!!! It was fun to have to think about how things would play out in future phases before they even happened (to a greater degree than normal) and to think about how to set up lynches so the people you wanted to get lynched were still viable options. In a regular game without the TTT board, we probably wouldn't have lynched Mathguy D1—if he had been a human, there would've been a lot of interesting implications there about how it was still probably the most "optimal" D1 lynch regardless.
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

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TheZeldaPianist275

I think what this game demonstrated to me is that I'm not great at wolf hunting lol. I haven't really had to do that in earnest since the revival started—the only other game I've been a human had enough gimmicks that we forced the wolves without having to resort to social deductions.

Oricorio I agree that I should have been pushier really the whole game, but the entire final phase the two people opposite me were basically not responding substantively to anything I was saying, and that was a very frustrating spot to be in! A# was a top suspicion for me the whole game but I talked myself out of voting for her because she was basically hiding, and the more present Poet had her own slips. I would really hate to see inactivity return to the meta as a viable strat.

I did have fun though, especially once Specs was lynched and I realized I needed to pay a lot more attention. Thank you much for hosting! I hope that you're able to cross-pollinate some other old MafiaScum ideas over here, because this was a clever game.

TheZeldaPianist275

Also, I disagree that Specs' insight was overly mechanistic. I think he was trying to frame the discussion around lynch candidates, and registering your own reads on people typically comes after they start talking about those potential lynches.

TheZeldaPianist275

Last thing before I sleep: I'm curious, who else on the human team would have gone for Poet over A# at the end? Did I miss something that should have made it obvious?

Oricorio

Quote from: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 16, 2023, 08:48:22 PMAlso, I disagree that Specs' insight was overly mechanistic. I think he was trying to frame the discussion around lynch candidates, and registering your own reads on people typically comes after they start talking about those potential lynches.

In mafia, it's not always about what you're doing but how you look doing it, and people were suspecting Specs for talking too much about strategy.

SpecsFlyer17

Quote from: Oricorio on November 16, 2023, 04:54:09 PMTown MVP: BlackDragonSlayer

How much did BDS pay you for that ranking? Bro literally gets the IC killed and wins MVP. The fix is in!

/s
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TheZeldaPianist275

That's my point though, leaving aside  the fact that the reads weren't accurate, Specs didn't look really that suspicious to my eye. Just because people suspect him doesn't mean what he was doing is objectively suspicious

"Hey we should probably carefully map out who dies and when when we lynch"
"Clearly wolf, lynch him and also our one confirmed human I guess"

ninja'd, good grief Specs

SpecsFlyer17

Haha I'm just kidding, BDS had good reads on the players.
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Oricorio

Quote from: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 08:59:35 PMHow much did BDS pay you for that ranking? Bro literally gets the IC killed and wins MVP. The fix is in!

/s

They were closest to getting it right. Still though, putting anyone in that spot comes with reservations lol

TheZeldaPianist275

Also, thanks for the thoughtful postgame breakdown Oricorio. Hope we have you around for more of this!

BlackDragonSlayer

Quote from: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 16, 2023, 09:00:34 PMThat's my point though, leaving aside  the fact that the reads weren't accurate, Specs didn't look really that suspicious to my eye. Just because people suspect him doesn't mean what he was doing is objectively suspicious

"Hey we should probably carefully map out who dies and when when we lynch"
"Clearly wolf, lynch him and also our one confirmed human I guess"

ninja'd, good grief Specs
The issue, to me, was that it didn't really feel like Specs was trying to hunt wolves; it felt more like he was trying to create favorable situations for himself on the board (which would've been especially true in a Math/Specs wolf pairing).

For me, I was varying degrees of suspicious of everybody except Toby and Xiao (before Xiao was wolfed; and THC, of course). The plan I proposed essentially made Toby the only viable partner for me, but given that he was more than open to lynching himself (plus, the fact that he himself knew he wasn't my partner), that should've been a pretty good sign that I wasn't a wolf.

Also, when I was lynched, I woke up like 10 minutes after the phase had ended :-X
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

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SpecsFlyer17

I'm honestly still pretty shocked I got lynched when I did. Yeah, I suppose everything I posted could have been a smokescreen and I could've put some more opinions in it.... But besides TZP a bit, no one was really deeply considering the cause and effect long-term ramifications of the lynch choice on the TTT board. I really felt like that was critical to the game, and it was worth discussing. And man, I'm still shocked I got lynch-rushed by HUMANS, also signing THCs death sentence.

Everyone involved... like low key ban-able offense?
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SpecsFlyer17

Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on November 16, 2023, 09:08:44 PMThe issue, to me, was that it didn't really feel like Specs was trying to hunt wolves

And that's fair. I probably should've inserted more about who I found suspicious, rather than just discussing the TTT repercussions.
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BlackDragonSlayer

Quote from: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 09:15:16 PMI'm honestly still pretty shocked I got lynched when I did. Yeah, I suppose everything I posted could have been a smokescreen and I could've put some more opinions in it.... But besides TZP a bit, no one was really deeply considering the cause and effect long-term ramifications of the lynch choice on the TTT board. I really felt like that was critical to the game, and it was worth discussing. And man, I'm still shocked I got lynch-rushed by HUMANS, also signing THCs death sentence.

Everyone involved... like low key ban-able offense?
I was considering the board when suggesting Poet lynch. From my perspective at the time (and even more so in hindsight) the only way that would've lost the game would be if the wolves were Toby/TZP which seemed like one of the least likely possible wolf pairings.

Also, what I said about THC/the IC was true. In this specific game, the IC is nice to have around but not essential (mostly because of how likely it is that they'd just be wolfed N1 regardless of who was lynched the day before), especially because THC was semi-inactive and it was hard to determine which way he'd lean in hypothetical final 3 situations, which was a risk I myself wasn't keen on taking.
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

Fakemon Dex
NSM Sprite Thread
Compositions
Story Thread
The Dread Somber

SpecsFlyer17

Oricorio, thanks a ton for hosting. Very intriguing game.

Thoughts on the TTT TWG game:

The center square is a tough thing to deal with. They'll likely get lynched or wolfed on D0 or N1, given the strategy of the game. It's just an unlucky roll for whoever gets it, and I think there's a fairly high amount of RNG luck that the center square creates. Obviously a wolf rolling center is terrible luck (although that looks like a dumb argument because the wolves won today lol). The solution would be put the IC in the center, but again, they're likely to be killed D0 or N1 anyways, so it's a bit anticlimactic.

Part of me likes the cause and effect nature of the game, while at other times I felt it made the game a little dry. On the plus side, it was fun solving all the lynching possibilities over who would die. On the other side, there are iterations of the game where 1 lynch can essentially decide 4 consecutive deaths, which frankly just sounds a little boring.
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