djRyoji's Corner - Video Game Piano Vol. I (20 arrangements + sheetbook)

Started by DonValentino, September 04, 2010, 09:40:06 AM

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Jompa

BUT HE IS 90% WRONG DAMMIT!!!!! That's all I'm saying!!!
You can't possibly agree with him about this weird "blues-theory"-delusion!?
Birdo for Smash

SlowPokemon

Quote from: Tobbeh99 on April 21, 2016, 02:56:11 PM
Fuck logic, that shit is boring, lame and does not always support my opinions.

TheZeldaPianist275


Jompa

Fine, then without insulting him:

What he is saying is not correct. This is the case 90 % of the time.

^There.

And yes, I do realize I have insulted Brassman, so I want to take the opportunity of this post to apologize.
Sorry about that.
Birdo for Smash

Brassman388

Haha. It's really not a big deal anymore. I tried to explain as best as I could, but I guess there's some people that choose not to listen. It's a sad fact, really.

For the record, a blues scale is a pentatonic built on the of the relative minor scale. For example; If we're trying to figure out what scales we would use for, say, a song in C major. There are 4 that you can directly use. We'll start with the ones in the relative minor, that would be A and its mixolydian, E.

We'll start with A. You start with A, C, and E - 1, 3, 5. You "lower" the fifth and add the 4th. So then, your scale would look like this; A, C, D, Eb, E - 1, 3, 4, b5, 5. You finish it off with adding the 7, which is added to lead back into the 1.

Your final scale would look like this: A, C, D, Eb, E, G. If you notice that the scale is again, built on C major's pentatonic and is altered using the flatted fifth rule as explained before.

Pretty cool, huh?

Jompa

Quote from: Brassman388 on March 26, 2013, 01:25:14 PMHaha. It's really not a big deal anymore. I tried to explain as best as I could, but I guess there's some people that choose not to listen. It's a sad fact, really.

For the record, a blues scale is a pentatonic built on the of the relative minor scale. For example; If we're trying to figure out what scales we would use for, say, a song in C major. There are 4 that you can directly use. We'll start with the ones in the relative minor, that would be A and its mixolydian, E.

We'll start with A. You start with A, C, and E - 1, 3, 5. You "lower" the fifth and add the 4th. So then, your scale would look like this; A, C, D, Eb, E - 1, 3, 4, b5, 5. You finish it off with adding the 7, which is added to lead back into the 1.

Your final scale would look like this: A, C, D, Eb, E, G. If you notice that the scale is again, built on C major's pentatonic and is altered using the flatted fifth rule as explained before.

Pretty cool, huh?
A blues scale isn't defined like that.
A blues scale is a scale that moves with the specific interval steps of 1.5 - 1 - 0,5 - 0,5 - 1.5 - 1. That's all there is to it.
What you are starting to talk about here is how some songs are written in more specific scales than just major and minor.
In music theory, these are called church keys. (well, in Norwegian it is called that, I couldn't find what it's called in English)
An example is the well-known samba rock song, "Tequila". It is obviously a song that goes in mixolydian, because the seventh as good as always appear minor.
But wether or not this is the case with WarioMan's arrangement is something else - in fact, it doesn't apply to it.
There isn't a specific step that always appear specifically, making it belonging to one of these church keys (like for example always sharped 6th), so no church key rules apply here. That's totally basic!

Why would you focus on minor blues anyways, this is in B major.

^I is very possible that I just misunderstood whatever subject you were trying to blend in here, so if I'm talking about something else, please tell me.

Anyways:
Not any of the things you are saying should even affect the accidentals. Neither should the church keys do (but lets not talk about those).
If you look at your suggestions - you can clearly see that almost every choice of accidentals you did, only creates more accidentals.
And for what? Removing double sharps? Double sharps are the obvious choice instead of natural and an extra unnecessary sharp, that even was there from the key signature.
You are making it harder for the reader.

If you want to change it that way because of making the complete chords correct (which actually is the only valid reason you could possibly present), then that wouldn't even apply to a quarter of these accidentals, besides, they would still be wrong.
It wouldn't be the worst idea to do this in the left hand, but it would still be hard to read. <- And that's just the left hand.
In the right hand it is just plain incorrect!

Since you insisted on an example earlier

Do you see how your way makes this totally random melody in B major extremely hard to read?
Birdo for Smash

DonValentino

Aaaaalright! Guys, enough! Here's what I think:

1. Brassman is right: The great majority of notes with accidentals are grace notes!
I think that a natural fits better the grace notes in my arrangement, even if the next note needs a sharp. They're just grace notes, they don't have to specifically follow the strict music theory! In addition, the naturals make the grace notes look more "spontaneous", more "natural"; don't know if I'm explaining it right... Well, a grace note doesn't look good with a double sharp, for example.
May not be that clean, but as I say, makes the grace notes look more spontaneous and natural.

2. Jompa is also right: For notes that are actually part of the song (not grace notes) a double sharp looks cleaner and better, so Jompa is right too.

Again! That's what I think, I may be wrong or right and I may not know hundreds of things about music theory that you both know, but I will do as I think now.

I'll put the final version tomorrow. And sorry if I am harsh, but I won't listen to any more feedback for this arrangement.

And truthfully, thanks a lot to both of you, for your patience, time and for your feedback; but seriously, this is just crazy. :(

Jompa

Quote from: WarioMan98 on March 26, 2013, 02:34:57 PM1. Brassman is right: The great majority of notes with accidentals are grace notes!
I think that a natural fits better the grace notes in my arrangement, even if the next note needs a sharp. They're just grace notes, they don't have to specifically follow the strict music theory! In addition, the naturals make the grace notes look more "spontaneous", more "natural"; don't know if I'm explaining it right... Well, a grace note doesn't look good with a double sharp.
May not be that clean, but as I say, makes the grace notes look more spontaneous and natural.
This is very correct WarioMan - You seem to have developed a rule that you can follow for yourself,
and that will make your arranging style more unique, to some degree. ;D

But... that is by no means what Brassman was trying to say though ???
Birdo for Smash

Brassman388

Quote from: WarioMan98 on March 26, 2013, 02:34:57 PMAgain! That's what I think, I may be wrong or right and I may not know hundreds of things about music theory that you both know, but I will do as I think now.

I'll put the final version tomorrow. And sorry if I am harsh, but I won't listen to any more feedback for this arrangement.

And truthfully, thanks a lot to both of you, for your patience, time and for your feedback; but seriously, this is just crazy. :(

I hope what I have explained thus far was informative enough for you to gain a bit of knowledge. That's all I'm here for, really. Other than to make some sweet arrangements.

And sorry again, man. Get a bit carried away at times, Hehe.

DonValentino

Quote from: Brassman388 on March 26, 2013, 08:52:07 PMI hope what I have explained thus far was informative enough for you to gain a bit of knowledge. That's all I'm here for, really. Other than to make some sweet arrangements.

And sorry again, man. Get a bit carried away at times, Hehe.

I think I have to apologize; you were right, Brassman. See, Jompa, he's correct with the blues scales and everything he pointed out. All he said makes perfect sense. So yeah, I keep Brassman's version.

Maybe you were referring to different things, I don't know, but the truth is that Brassman was right after all! I'm not saying that Jompa may not be right either. But Brassman is right, that's for sure.

Sorry guys, I should have realized that earlier. :-X
Thanks again to both of you and hope you continue commenting on my arrangements! :)



Pokemon Diamond, Pearl and Platinum - "Bicycle" MUS

Jompa

Quote from: WarioMan98 on March 27, 2013, 04:51:03 AMI think I have to apologize; you were right, Brassman. See, Jompa, he's correct with the blues scales and everything he pointed out. All he said makes perfect sense. So yeah, I keep Brassman's version.
Oh, god no.
You see, Brassman believes that a song changes tonic every time it changes chord, and that is not right. It is always B major throughout the entire song.

But because of this he also thinks that there's a specific scale that the melody is built on to each of the chord changes.
And because of this his other theory, that you can only use a flattened fifth for each blues scale and not a sharped fourth, makes the accidentals naturals instead of double sharps <-- and that is correct when the notes are descending, however in this case they are escalating almost 90 % of the time, making the accidentals completely wrong.
WarioMan, your arrangement is now full of wrong accidentals.

Don't forget that the main objective is to make it easier to read:
The main objective is to reduce accidentals, and that is not what you are doing right now. That is very obvious when you just look at the arrangement.
Birdo for Smash

SlowPokemon

Can we just get olimar over here to settle this if no one will step down.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on April 21, 2016, 02:56:11 PM
Fuck logic, that shit is boring, lame and does not always support my opinions.

Jompa

Birdo for Smash

The Deku Trombonist


Jompa

Yeah, that's another thing:

Nothing Brassman says, should affect the accidentals anyway - If anything, the accidentals he put are contradicting to both music theory itself and the idea of making things easier to read.

Deku, we aren't fighting. This is a discussion for the sake of WarioMan's arrangement, where Brassman so far has been coming with his view of music theory and his suggestion of accidentals based on his theory, and me trying to convince WarioMan that Brassman's view is wrong, and that Brassman's suggestion has wrong accidentals in it.
Birdo for Smash