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Started by spitllama, September 05, 2012, 07:15:02 PM

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mikey

a higher minimum wage seems like it might be a problem
unmotivated

Maelstrom

Random thoughts, but I feel like saying them:
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on August 11, 2015, 10:49:46 AMHeavier taxes on the rich- American people support
But it won't change anything. Anyone making over 1mil a year can just pay to exploit loopholes and this would have little effect on them
QuoteMinimum wage to 15 an hour- American people HUGELY support (in fact, most republicans also support this- around 60% or so in the last poll I saw)
Raising the minimum wage is one of the worst things that could happen, imo. People just think it would mean more money for those working minimum wage jobs. But, all it would do is drive up the cost of living proportionately, as everyone making above minimum wage would demand a proportionate increase in wages, and, after a year or two, those making minimum wage are no better off than before the wage rise. It may even be worse off, in fact. As soon as the wage increase is announced, every place that employs minimum wage people is going to invest heavily in automated systems. Granted, this may not benefit the companies that much after the market fully shifts, but, by that time, many minimum wage jobs will have been replaced by robots with a single person hired to maintain them. I see no benefit in the long term for this in the least.

edit: Ninja'd by a tl;dr

mikey

unmotivated

Dude

If you look at how much inflation has occurred, the minimum wage is awful.

Pianist Da Sootopolis

Tell your talking points to NYC, Seattle, and several other places that already have.
If you're concerned about businesses losing money, take a look at how much the CEO's make- thousands of dollars an hour.
what is shitpost

Dude

Wait, I said that wrong.
Quote from: Dude on August 11, 2015, 12:18:14 PMIf you look at how much inflation has occurred, the current minimum wage amount needs to go up.
there we go. The wording was bad.

mikey

I'm more worried about unemployment going up because of companies refusing to pay more than x amount
unmotivated

Pianist Da Sootopolis

If the federal minimum wage is $15, a living wage, as it should be, and companies start protesting and hiring less, the CEO's should also realize they're giving themselves thousands of dollars an hour and complaining about an 8 dollar increase.
what is shitpost

Ruto

Quote from: Maelstrom on August 11, 2015, 11:27:51 AMRandom thoughts, but I feel like saying them:But it won't change anything. Anyone making over 1mil a year can just pay to exploit loopholes and this would have little effect on them
Close the loopholes.

Quote from: Maelstrom on August 11, 2015, 11:27:51 AMRaising the minimum wage is one of the worst things that could happen, imo. People just think it would mean more money for those working minimum wage jobs. But, all it would do is drive up the cost of living proportionately, as everyone making above minimum wage would demand a proportionate increase in wages, and, after a year or two, those making minimum wage are no better off than before the wage rise. It may even be worse off, in fact. As soon as the wage increase is announced, every place that employs minimum wage people is going to invest heavily in automated systems. Granted, this may not benefit the companies that much after the market fully shifts, but, by that time, many minimum wage jobs will have been replaced by robots with a single person hired to maintain them. I see no benefit in the long term for this in the least.

I've heard these arguments before, but a lot of them don't actually hold. I see you're using a slippery slope argument (if wages go up, EVERYTHING else will go up). It's possible that a burger might cost more but it won't double if McDonald's wants to stay in business. Don't forget the fight for the wage increase is to give workers a living wage. Otherwise, they'd all apply for welfare and suck up tax money that everyone else has to pay.

I can tell you that unless robots can cook as well, McDonald's and Subways can't be fully automated. Most of the time, people are just pissed off because they don't want to be the bottom rung of society. What also doesn't make sense is why you're complaining about a lowly fast food worker's wage and not the CEO's, which is about 400x the worker's.

I seem to be missing a piece of my ear.

mikey

Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on August 11, 2015, 01:39:19 PMIf the federal minimum wage is $15, a living wage, as it should be, and companies start protesting and hiring less, the CEO's should also realize they're giving themselves thousands of dollars an hour and complaining about an 8 dollar increase.
A company's goal is to maximize profit.  If they have to spend more money on workers then they have to decrease the number of workers until it reaches equilibrium.
unmotivated

Dude

Or cut the the higher up's salaries

Pianist Da Sootopolis

^ Which would make much more sense, considering they make absurd amounts of money. Say a CEO makes 2,000 dollars an hour (which isn't that high for a CEO), and he works a normal day (we'll say 8 hours), he makes 16,000 dollars that day.
If a minimum wage worker wants to make that much in a year (which is hardly anything for a yearly salary) with the current federal minimum wage (7.25 an hour), he/she has to work 2206.9 hours that year.
Consider that there are a maximum of 251 work days a year. Say you get sick for two weeks throughout the entire year (10 days), and take 6 days off. You have to work about 9.5 hours a day for 235 days to make a living wage with the current federal income.
what is shitpost

blueflower999

I love the philosophy of punishing those who get rich with extremely high tax rates when they already pay a much larger percentage of government revenue than they should proportionate to their income.
Bulbear! Blueflower999

Pianist Da Sootopolis

You are aware that the top 400 in the US last year paid 18% in income tax, right?
Some of this can be accounted by investments being taxed at a lower rate, but there are still plenty of other factors that come into play.
Read about it more here.
I'm more concerned about taxing huge corporations, 20% of which aren't paying anything in taxes.
what is shitpost

ZeldaFan

Minimum wage SHOULD be raised, maybe not necessarily to $15 an hour. I read this article that explained how Seattle (one of the states that made minimum wage $15 an hour) is seeing a trend in their minimum wage employees: they are requesting to work fewer hours so they can keep their government subsidies for food, child care, and rent. So even switching to $15 an hour (which is more than I've EVER made, at age 24) still hasn't actually helped people get out of poverty and their reliance on the government.

Plus, wouldn't small businesses pretty much HAVE to close down? No way they could afford to pay employees that high of a wage and still keep all of them.

Minimum wage in Utah is $7.25. That's bullshit. NO ONE can live off of that wage, even working full time. And don't even THINK about going to school to get a higher-paying job without accruing thousands in debt:
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