[WiiU] Mario Kart 8 - "Cloudtop Cruise" by holland_oates89

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Super Mario
Game: Mario Kart 8
Console: Wii U
Title: Cloudtop Cruise
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: holland_oates89

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[holland_oates89]

For reference:

I'm going to level with you all, I didn't spend as much time on this one as my other sheet which is still being reviewed, BUT I'm fairly sure the transcription is accurate. Originally being an orchestral arrangement there were a number of extra parts that had to be sacrificed in a piano reduction. I am open to any and all critique, thank you!

[Maelstrom]

I'm not an expert, but is a double dotted half note theoretically correct outside of a compound time signature?
If it is, could you explain why?

Also, the composer and song title should be bold, while the  arranger and game name should be italicised.

[mikey]

I'm not an expert, but is a double dotted half note theoretically correct outside of a compound time signature?
If it is, could you explain why?

Why wouldn't it be, it's just 3+1/2

[Sebastian]

I did a little editing to your song. Hope you don't mind =)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/chit7hve4p4n2kn/Mario%20Kart%208%20-%20Cloudtop%20Cruise.mus?dl=0
All I did was copy/paste this into my favorite template and add slurs to all the grace notes.
For the future, I recommend using a template. Then it will save lots of time when it comes to putting the info in

Excellent job on this song!!

[Maelstrom]

Why wouldn't it be, it's just 3+1/2

But it's the double dotted part.

[mikey]

what's wrong with having more than one dot?
(nothing)

[holland_oates89]

@mariolegofan: Thank you for your help, but I'm not sure this template best suits my engraving. It looks like you've doubled the title to say "Cloudtop CruiseCloudtop Cruise", and you added all of the MK8 composers when this piece was only written by Atsuko Asahi. Source here: http://www.mariowiki.com/Mario_Kart_8_Original_Soundtrack - Look under "Arrangers/Composers" to see who wrote each individual track. The font has also been changed to Maestro, which changed the articulations that I had positioned, so now nearly all of them are in the wrong places. I use my own template but thank to Maelstrom I can see that I forgot to change the page-attached text, I'll update that as soon as I get home from work.

I prefer the engraver font but does it look strange for people using Windows computers? On Mac, the name of the font is "EngraverFontSet" and on Windows, the name of the font is "Engraver Font Set" (with spaces), so sometimes Finale can misinterpret the fonts and cause all articulations/slurs to appear WAY above the noteheads. It's really easy to fix but I don't want anyone to have to do any "extra steps" to see my file properly. Do any Windows users see this "floating articulation" behavior on their computers? If so, I'll just switch to Maestro and use that from now on.

@maelstrom: The two books I generally reference for "classical" engraving are Gardner Read's "Music Notation: A Manual of Modern Practice" and Elaine Gould's "Behind Bars: The Definitive Guide to Music Notation" - While neither text really goes into detail about when to use double-dots, the two rules Read outlines are 1) "dots should only be used when the combined duration of note and dot(s) lies within a measure" - in other words, the duration must always be between barlines - and 2) "Double- and Triple-dot usage should generally be reserved for instances where the dotted note occurs on a strong beat." In this case, the double-dotted note occurs on the first beat of a measure and the preceding eighth note fills the measure, so by every engraving standard I've studied this is totally ok. However, it isn't really "wrong" to write a half-note tied to a dotted quarter note, so I could use that if we think it would be best. I chose not to use that method because it causes unnecessary extra notes.

Actually, I really don't mean to sound argumentative or anything, but most engravers would be nervous about using double-dots in compound meters, while they are typically very comfortable using them in common meters like 4/4. The reason for this is a concept known as the "Invisible Barline," which basically teaches that music should have a clear division half-way through the bar, and in complex meters, through each beat in the bar.

For example, writing in a meter such as 3/8 + 2/8, it is a very bad idea to write a note duration that ignores the division between the 3rd and 4th eighth notes. They are always written as two separate notes tied together, and they are also beamed separately.

Common meters have a lot of exceptions to this rule, however. It's totally ok to use "quarter, half, quarter" in 4/4, for example, and obviously plenty of people use a dotted half note to cover three beats in a measure. Double-dotted half notes last the duration of the note (2 beats), plus one half that duration (1 beat), plus one half of the previous augmentation dot (1 eighth note). This leads to a total of 3+1/2 beats, as NocturneOfShadow pointed out.

Anyway, I won't bore you guys with a thousand tiny rules to engraving unless you're really curious (ha!) but the tl;dr is that double-dots are generally fine unless you're writing in a complex meter where individual beats need to be shown. Since this whole piece is in 4/4, there shouldn't be a problem using double-dots.

I actually listed to this again and realized that I didn't position a few pedal markings correctly, and it broke my midi file. I'll be working on an updated version later tonight. If there are any Windows users out there, I'd love to know if slurs and articulations look super high above the staff when they open the .mus file. If they are, I'll update to Maestro instead.

Thank you all!

[Sebastian]

@mariolegofan: Thank you for your help, but I'm not sure this template best suits my engraving. It looks like you've doubled the title to say "Cloudtop CruiseCloudtop Cruise", and you added all of the MK8 composers when this piece was only written by Atsuko Asahi. Source here: http://www.mariowiki.com/Mario_Kart_8_Original_Soundtrack - Look under "Arrangers/Composers" to see who wrote each individual track. The font has also been changed to Maestro, which changed the articulations that I had positioned, so now nearly all of them are in the wrong places. I use my own template but thank to Maelstrom I can see that I forgot to change the page-attached text, I'll update that as soon as I get home from work.

I prefer the engraver font but does it look strange for people using Windows computers? On Mac, the name of the font is "EngraverFontSet" and on Windows, the name of the font is "Engraver Font Set" (with spaces), so sometimes Finale can misinterpret the fonts and cause all articulations/slurs to appear WAY above the noteheads. It's really easy to fix but I don't want anyone to have to do any "extra steps" to see my file properly. Do any Windows users see this "floating articulation" behavior on their computers? If so, I'll just switch to Maestro and use that from now on.

I didn't know that all the tracks weren't written by the same people
Thanks for the clarification!

I think that double of the name was a glitch on my end.....sorry about that. Is this better?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/chit7hve4p4n2kn/Mario%20Kart%208%20-%20Cloudtop%20Cruise.mus?dl=0

And I'm not sure what this "floating articulation" is you're talking about. It looks fine on here.

[holland_oates89]

I didn't know that all the tracks weren't written by the same people
Thanks for the clarification!

I think that double of the name was a glitch on my end.....sorry about that. Is this better?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/chit7hve4p4n2kn/Mario%20Kart%208%20-%20Cloudtop%20Cruise.mus?dl=0

And I'm not sure what this "floating articulation" is you're talking about. It looks fine on here.

It does look better, but it's still missing all of the positioning data I had inputted. Ties in particular are completely mistreated. Look at measure 7 as an example - the bottom tie collides with the eighth-note flag (I'll admit it's one of my pet peeves but they should not collide even if Finale does this automatically), the middle tie is nearly invisible because of how small it is, and the top tie is using an outer tie, which isn't incorrect but it is not what I had intended. There are actually countless examples of these tie issues throughout the score and it took me a while to adjust them. It's actually a big part of why I'm not using the template provided on the site - it looks good, but takes a lot of time to be perfect.

I don't expect anyone to really worry about this detail, but because the template you pasted into uses Maestro as a default font, there are a number of document options that have been reset. Probably the most obvious example is the piano bracket, which is now too far away from the score. Articulations are also off-center (stem-side staccato dots like in measure 6 are a good example) and the slur contour has been reset - this causes other smartshapes like crescendos (measure 25) and solid lines (measure 27) to go out of position as well.

I don't mean to sound upset or anything, but I put a lot of work into my engraving and I need it to be perfect. I know that the sheets on this website are a group effort and anyone should be allowed to edit and correct each other's sheets, but in these first stages of the arrangement, could you tell me your feedback about the changes you'd like to see rather than editing my sheet? That way, I can make the changes myself and ensure that other parts of the document don't break as a result.

If it's a question of quality standards let me know what they are and I can match them. I've been a professional engraver for about five years and regularly write articles on Finale's blog about writing sheet music. The notation of my sheet music is very important to me and I have the Finale knowledge to fix something if people can tell me what to fix.

[mikey]

^This about sums up why you shouldn't put your hands on other peoples' sheets without saying anything, or without their permission.

[Tobbeh99]

About the double dot thing:

According to this Wikipedia article, Chopin, Wagner and Brukner (and probably other composers as well) used double dot and even triple dots in their music in 4/4.
An example from Chopin's Prelude op. 28 no. 3.

I guess that makes it somewhat legit using double dots.

[Sebastian]

It does look better, but it's still missing all of the positioning data I had inputted. Ties in particular are completely mistreated. Look at measure 7 as an example - the bottom tie collides with the eighth-note flag (I'll admit it's one of my pet peeves but they should not collide even if Finale does this automatically), the middle tie is nearly invisible because of how small it is, and the top tie is using an outer tie, which isn't incorrect but it is not what I had intended. There are actually countless examples of these tie issues throughout the score and it took me a while to adjust them. It's actually a big part of why I'm not using the template provided on the site - it looks good, but takes a lot of time to be perfect.

I don't expect anyone to really worry about this detail, but because the template you pasted into uses Maestro as a default font, there are a number of document options that have been reset. Probably the most obvious example is the piano bracket, which is now too far away from the score. Articulations are also off-center (stem-side staccato dots like in measure 6 are a good example) and the slur contour has been reset - this causes other smartshapes like crescendos (measure 25) and solid lines (measure 27) to go out of position as well.

I don't mean to sound upset or anything, but I put a lot of work into my engraving and I need it to be perfect. I know that the sheets on this website are a group effort and anyone should be allowed to edit and correct each other's sheets, but in these first stages of the arrangement, could you tell me your feedback about the changes you'd like to see rather than editing my sheet? That way, I can make the changes myself and ensure that other parts of the document don't break as a result.

If it's a question of quality standards let me know what they are and I can match them. I've been a professional engraver for about five years and regularly write articles on Finale's blog about writing sheet music. The notation of my sheet music is very important to me and I have the Finale knowledge to fix something if people can tell me what to fix.

Thanks for the explanation! You're obviously 10x better than I am and you actually know what you're doing unlike me. I didn't know you had all that stuff inputted and put all that engraving work into it or I probably wouldn't of messed with it
What I did was totally optional and isn't required at all. Sorry about that!
I'll just shutup now :p

^This about sums up why you shouldn't put your hands on other peoples' sheets without saying anything, or without their permission.

Not helping at all

[Maelstrom]

@Hollan_Oates89 Thanks! I guess that makes sense. I've just avoided them and seen them so rarely that I assumed they were against the rules. Even so, I probably won't use them, as I find it easier to sight read the other way.

[holland_oates89]

@mariolegofan: Hey, no problem! I just care a disproportionate amount about music notation, lol. I know you're just trying to help and typically your corrections are really good changes to make with the other sheets I've seen you edit.

@Maelstrom: I mean.... heh avoiding them in general is never a bad idea. They're actually rarely used because most engravers prefer to use simpler engraving options, like a half-note and rests. Musicians will likely play it correctly anyway. It's only seen when you really have to hold the note for the full duration, and in my view, it is needed in this case.

Thanks guys! I'll have an updated version tonight but I'll keep an eye out for any more feedback.