NinSheetMusic Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Up-to-date news?! Preposterous!

Author Topic: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone  (Read 487 times)

davy

  • Moderator
  • Sonic Ska
  • *
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1310
    • View Profile
TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« on: December 03, 2018, 09:05:39 PM »

Fascists win.

Role Reveal:


BDS - Hitler
nana1popo2 - Liberal
mikey - Fascist
brawler - Liberal
SYG - Liberal
Olimar - Liberal
Brainy - Fascist

Policies:

SYG gets 3 liberal policies. He discards one, Olimar discards one.
Brainy gets 2 fascist policies and 1 liberal policy. He discards the liberal policy. mikey discards a fascist policy.
BDS gets 2 fascist policies and 1 liberal policy. He discards the liberal policy. Olimar decides to screw the rules and not discard any policy. After giving him another 24 hours in case he forgot, I decide to just auto discard for him since the policies are the same anyway.
Brawler gets 2 fascist policies and 1 liberal policy. He discards a fascist policy. n1p1 also discards a fascist policy.
Olimar gets 3 fascist policies. He discards one, brainy discards one.

Analysis

The problem with Secret Hitler (aside from the added problem of playing the game online with a host from a different time zone, causing the game to go on for way to long) is that the game can end by the time it gets interesting if Hitler becomes chancelor immediately or if he is killed immediately. In essence, the only desicion of importance in this game was Brawler nominating BDS as chancelor. Credit where credit is due, this was due to BDS succesfully reverse-psychologying Brawler by being way to suspicious to be Hitler. Needless to say, BDS gets mvp.

I do think Secret Hitler can work on a forum with this ruleset, but only if the host and the players are in the same timezones, so the early phases only take a couple of hours rather than 24 each.
Logged
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow
[davy]'s in a way different time zone so basically he pops in at like 2 AM and posts 500 words and wins the game

ShyYoshiGuy

  • Ballad of the Belmonts
  • *********
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 294
  • Arranger
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2018, 09:06:29 PM »

Ope. Great title btw
Logged
"Don't be nervous, be of service."
   - Jacob Howard
My arrangement5
SW-3981-0440-6037
Hm.. How to get to Yo5hi’5 I5land? (Hint: click it)
[close]

Brawler4Ever

  • Code Monkey
  • Sonic Ska
  • *
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1321
  • I can do this all day.
    • View Profile
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 09:07:33 PM »

Dang. I thought it was n1. I just finished pm’ing mikey about my plan. xD I knew that BDS was fascist but thought that n1 was Hitler. I chose BDS because I didn’t think that he, as Hitler, would put that target on himself. I was going to shoot n1 even if I got a liberal policy. I was certain hitler was either n1, brainy, or shy with bds giving them advice. I just wanted the fascist vote. :P

Gg
I’m curious. Did the fascists ever make contact with bds? If so, when?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 10:14:12 PM by Brawler4Ever »
Logged
Even when everyone else has gone,
I will punch the punching bag until a game comes on. XD

10 years later. Still Brawling!

mikey

  • Moderator
  • Nintendo Nocturne
  • *
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 11327
  • "Courage"
    • View Profile
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2018, 11:07:28 PM »

It was one of the first things I did.  I asked Davy if ootc was allowed this game and he said it was.  That surprised me, but I PMd BDS and brainy to let them know.  Overall we had very little actual communication together, and I think that kind of hurt us, because me and bds were on two completely different pages.

It was incredibly funny that the two members of twc not hosting happened to roll fascist this game
Brainy for fascist twc 2019

Overall I've been liking the tabletop game adaptations, even if a few things are difficult to carry over.  I think this game would have been a lot more fun without out of thread communication and I would have been at my wit's end trying to figure out who Hitler was without a ton of support from brainy.  I also generally think the liberals got unlucky with the card placement, and they should have voted no a little more often.

Player thoughts:
Brawler- you looked like you had fun and played really well for the most part too.  I thought you were onto me and had completely fallen for BDS' ploy, but I guess you were even abreast of that.  I can understand thinking that bds would not be hitler, since your analysis if the situation is generally correct and what bds did would likely prevent him from being elected again.
Olimar- your semijoke was correct haha. Obviously the style of this game didn't suit you as the downtimes were pretty impressive.  You ended up being a victim of circumstance as it was really easy to pin two failings on you.
Shy & n1p2- thanks for playing, but what I would really love to see from you guys in the future is to throw yourselves out there a bit more.  It's okay to be wrong and to arrive at the wrong conclusions.  Showing that you're working towards making those conclusions will at least help everyone town read you more/not be suspicious of you simply for quiet.
Brainy- whatever
BDS- your behavior towards the end there was truthfully pretty spewey but nobody actually cared.  Brawler actually elected you and voted yes and that was that.  In general, while your gambit paid off and simply just won the game, I don't think these kinds of plays are what Hitler wants to be doing, like brawler determined.  It paid off though, and that should be rewarded.  Good job on mvp.
Logged
Luke 1:3

"It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee..."

BlackDragonSlayer

  • Be Sure to Drink Your Ovaltine
  • Global Moderator
  • Nintendo Nocturne
  • *
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7789
  • Black Dragons Beware
    • View Profile
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 11:23:58 PM »

I’m curious. Did the fascists ever make contact with bds? If so, when?
Yeah, but I tried to pretend they didn't so I could pull genuine confusion if someone found out that Hitler and the Fascists could be in contact. :P
Logged
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

Nornova Dex
NSM Sprite Thread
Compositions
Story Thread

Brawler4Ever

  • Code Monkey
  • Sonic Ska
  • *
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1321
  • I can do this all day.
    • View Profile
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2018, 12:47:32 AM »

I got home from work so I can post some more of my thoughts. The liberals didn't stand a chance. I kind of knew that from phase 1 with Shy's 3 liberal policies, but I thought that we could make it work. But then I learned that Hitler and the fascists could be in contact. That's game-breaking, imo. BDS was absolutely the correct chancellor choice for me in standard Secret Hitler, imo. Hitler butting heads with a player that might be a fascist, making them both targets? No Hitler would do that. He didn't "reverse psychology" me. There was literally no better choice since everybody was so inactive. The next best choice would have been mikey, who was null at that time and who just also happened to be fascist, although I had no idea at the time. I thought he was liberal at the end by poe. n1, brainy, and shy were all too inactive for me to trust with chancellorship if BDS was calling the shots.

n1 was the perfect Hitler for 3 reasons. First, the exchange between n1 and bds for the seering was weird. One of the reasons that I trusted mikey was that he called that out. Second, n1 was quiet and didn't really add to the game. I could say the same for shy and brainy. But n1 picked a liberal policy, and that was a huge tell to me. If BDS and n1 were just getting in contact (like I had then assumed), that would mean that BDS was giving n1 instructions, since n1 could now trust BDS. That's normal Hitler behavior. Third, n1 was asking why I didn't pick them for chancellor during the final phase. That was already after I had formulated my plan to vigi them, and I considered that the final tell that I needed for them to be Hitler. It all just made perfect sense to me.

Even with the knowledge that Hitler and Fascists could be in contact, there was no telling when or even if they had made contact. So there was no telling that Hitler would be playing by a new meta. BDS pushed the idea and then did the exact opposite and put a massive target on his and Olimar's head. This was absolutely the correct play, imo. Kudos. But if you take that logic, then there is no correct chancellor choice. It's literally a roulette, rather than a calculated decision. It's the one defense that liberals have is that they can find the quiet person hiding in the corner. There was no way that the liberals could have won that game.

I still had fun, though.

For those that care, this is the message I sent to Olimar. I quoted this and sent my plan to mikey not realizing that the game had ended. :P
Spoiler
Regardless of what I said in the topic, I'm not 100% on BDS being liberal. It would have been very easy for him to throw away a liberal policy and give you two fascist policies. If you make me president, I'll nominate BDS (or mikey, I'm comfortable either way) as chancellor. If we get a fascist policy, I shoot n1. Him being Hitler makes way too much sense for me. There would be no reason for Hitler to be laying low unless somebody told him to. BDS and I are the only 2 players that have played the game before. I still strongly believe that n1 is Hitler.
[close]
Logged
Even when everyone else has gone,
I will punch the punching bag until a game comes on. XD

10 years later. Still Brawling!

Olimar12345

  • The Captain
  • Staff Emeritus
  • Nintendo Nocturne
  • *
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10183
    • View Profile
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2018, 05:28:22 AM »

Mikey was a damn fascist. That’s hilarious.
Logged
Visit my site: VGM Sheet Music by Olimar12345 ~ Quality VGM sheet music available for free!

mikey

  • Moderator
  • Nintendo Nocturne
  • *
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 11327
  • "Courage"
    • View Profile
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2018, 05:52:21 AM »

I think my initial response was like "of course I roll wolf in a game where they're called fascists"
Logged
Luke 1:3

"It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee..."

Nana1Popo2

  • Sheik's Symphony
  • **********************
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 860
    • View Profile
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2018, 06:40:42 AM »

Third, n1 was asking why I didn't pick them for chancellor during the final phase. That was already after I had formulated my plan to vigi them, and I considered that the final tell that I needed for them to be Hitler. It all just made perfect sense to me.

And you wonder why I dont speak my mind. lol. I contemplated so long posting that comment, but figured why tf not since it didn't seem like anyone had a huge target on my back. At least, so I thought..

I honestly had no clue how to formulate any responses this game. I was half confused half the time but bought into Brawler's posts. Even if I was a bad guy, I doubt I could've been smart enough to make any good moves...
I was gonna type up something about BDS near the end but it would've put too much suspicion on me, I feel--thought it would be better if I kept my mouth shut. (Also to speed up the game, because I still didn't understand how we could kill someone?)

I liked this game style, as it was different from the norm, however now I feel like I need some classic Werewolf to get back into the spirit of things..
Logged
Kappa Kappa Psi, National Honorary Band Fraternity; ASU Alumnus '16; DCP '16

Brawler4Ever

  • Code Monkey
  • Sonic Ska
  • *
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1321
  • I can do this all day.
    • View Profile
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2018, 01:21:03 PM »

Good moves are relative. I probably had the most clear idea of what was happening in the game among the liberals and I single-handedly lost the game for us. Like I said, I had already made the decision to vigi you by that time. Mainly as a result of you being quiet and not really formulating any new ideas up until that point. But that's a quirk especially found in this game when we're looking for Hitler, who is normally trying to blend in as a liberal and not make themselves noticed. Your actions were all correct, but that's what makes finding Hitler so difficult; if Hitler is playing well, then he's going to look like a liberal. That's why BDS's camouflage worked so well this game. He did the OPPOSITE of what a standard Hitler would do.

Shy & n1p2- thanks for playing, but what I would really love to see from you guys in the future is to throw yourselves out there a bit more.  It's okay to be wrong and to arrive at the wrong conclusions.  Showing that you're working towards making those conclusions will at least help everyone town read you more/not be suspicious of you simply for quiet.

This is absolutely true, for this game and standard TWG. It's really not enough to idly watch others play. Even if you're wrong (which let's be honest, we'll accuse the wrong person of being a wolf 9/10 times), it still at least shows that you're trying to find a wolf.

I spend far too much time on this game. Like, an almost unhealthy amount. But that's why I limit myself to every other game or so. It takes up too much of my time. That's why I can write up these analyses that take paragraphs to write. Nobody's asking you to do that. That's just how I prefer to write out my thoughts. I'm also really bad at finding wolves. I got 1 right (BDS), 1 wrong (mikey) and hard suspicion on the third (brainy). The only roles I actually got right were BDS and Olimar that whole game. So I'm by no means an expert.  If I'm not a wolf, I'm actually really bad at this game. :)
But dang I make a good wolf.

Nobody's asking for perfection. We just need to hear thoughts every once and a while.
Logged
Even when everyone else has gone,
I will punch the punching bag until a game comes on. XD

10 years later. Still Brawling!

Brawler4Ever

  • Code Monkey
  • Sonic Ska
  • *
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1321
  • I can do this all day.
    • View Profile
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2018, 02:07:32 PM »

Just for an example, I'm going to go over why I thought that BDS was more likely the wolf over Olimar. Just so you can see my train of thought that game.

1) The first thing that I noticed was actually in Discord. There wasn't much in Discord this game, but I did find this little gem. This was just after Olimar waited an extra day and passed a fascist policy by non-action.
Quote
BlackDragonSlayer11/20/2018
Wait, what's going on?

mikey11/20/2018
You've got a seering and we're debating who to target

BlackDragonSlayer11/20/2018
...
OLIMAR

I'll explain in the topic

To me, this felt fake. It didn't seem surprised. It seemed angry, which I don't feel would have been the correct emotion to display. It's difficult to compare since we didn't have another example of debate between two players. And I may be wrong here. Maybe that's exactly how BDS would have reacted if Olimar had switched the policies. In which case, I'd have given BDS doubt when there shouldn't have been. That happens, and that's fine. Seriously, how many times has mikey been lynched because of how he said a thing?

2) BDS's nondisclosure of his seering. I still don't understand this, tbh. I couldn't see what a liberal would benefit from hiding his seer target's faction. I eventually came to the conclusion that he had to have seered you liberal and just went with it. After that phase, he did indeed declare you as liberal. This was the correct play for fascist BDS, imo, since he was already butting heads with Olimar. It would have been too good to be true for him to immediately find both fascist partners, or potentially Hitler.
Side note: Your "I have nothing to hide" comment was genuine, but raised some flags. That's what mainly made me decide to ask davy if Hitler and the fascists could be in contact, which basically sealed the deal for me that you were Hitler. You didn't do anything wrong there. But in the terms of standard Secret Hitler, it was concerning. But I wouldn't expect you to know that.

3) BDS figuring out Hitler's meta. I'm referring to this comment specifically. There is no meta for Hitler in NSM. If Hitler is laying low like BDS said, then either he or I told Hitler to do so. Maybe it's obvious to him and me, but this is a completely new game for most players. To be fair as well, I made similar comments. If our roles were reversed, I would understand if BDS made a similar accusation against me for the same reason.

4) Olimar passing two fascist policies. This is a bit backwards in logic, since a fascist policy should have been a note of accusation against Olimar. But in this case, I wasn't sure if Olimar would have passed a fascist policy when given 1 liberal policy and 1 fascist policy, as fascist. I knew that BDS would, since that's a common fascist tactic. I once played a game as fascist where we didn't do that and decided to play it safe. We lost 5 liberal policies to 0 because the liberals just happened to pick all liberals for the last policy, and we had terrible luck with the draws. When I made this comment, I had already made the decision that BDS was the fascist. If I remember correctly though, I do think that this comment just before was genuine. It would have been very easy for BDS to discard that liberal card. Which, by the way, both brainy and BDS did, so there were 0 liberal cards remaining for Olimar to pick.

I'm absolutely not trying to bash on BDS. BDS played an amazing game that won the fascists the game. But I just want you, n1 (and others) to see what my train of thought was for the game. This is what I'm talking about, at least, when I say come up with your own theories and thoughts. I never actually made an accusation against BDS because this wasn't that type of game. If this were standard TWG, I would have a made a text wall similar to this one and made my case against BDS in-game. But again, nobody's asking you to do that. That's just my style. And again, I may be wrong on some or all of these parts. That's the fun of the game; you never really know if what you're thinking makes sense. :)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 02:11:29 PM by Brawler4Ever »
Logged
Even when everyone else has gone,
I will punch the punching bag until a game comes on. XD

10 years later. Still Brawling!

mikey

  • Moderator
  • Nintendo Nocturne
  • *
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 11327
  • "Courage"
    • View Profile
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2018, 06:19:46 PM »

if this was a traditional twg I would have died
Logged
Luke 1:3

"It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee..."

BlackDragonSlayer

  • Be Sure to Drink Your Ovaltine
  • Global Moderator
  • Nintendo Nocturne
  • *
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7789
  • Black Dragons Beware
    • View Profile
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2018, 12:55:48 AM »

2) BDS's nondisclosure of his seering. I still don't understand this, tbh. I couldn't see what a liberal would benefit from hiding his seer target's faction. I eventually came to the conclusion that he had to have seered you liberal and just went with it. After that phase, he did indeed declare you as liberal. This was the correct play for fascist BDS, imo, since he was already butting heads with Olimar. It would have been too good to be true for him to immediately find both fascist partners, or potentially Hitler.
Side note: Your "I have nothing to hide" comment was genuine, but raised some flags. That's what mainly made me decide to ask davy if Hitler and the fascists could be in contact, which basically sealed the deal for me that you were Hitler. You didn't do anything wrong there. But in the terms of standard Secret Hitler, it was concerning. But I wouldn't expect you to know that.
I figured that I would have done that as a liberal because of the reasons I stated. It was good for either gaining more information, or keeping both the president and chancellor on guard. In IRL Secret Hitler, releasing information at the right time is actually a good play as a liberal (specifically, in regards to the power that lets you see the top three cards of the deck, which I was thinking of at the time).

if this was a traditional twg I would have died
yes
Logged
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

Nornova Dex
NSM Sprite Thread
Compositions
Story Thread

mikey

  • Moderator
  • Nintendo Nocturne
  • *
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 11327
  • "Courage"
    • View Profile
Re: TWG CXI: How Do I Conclude This Game Without Annoying Anyone
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2018, 01:11:33 AM »

Logged
Luke 1:3

"It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee..."
 

Page created in 0.062 seconds with 24 queries.