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Author Topic: SlowPokemon's Halloween Sheet - [SWITCH] Luigi's Mansion 3 - "2F: Mezzanine"  (Read 639 times)

SlowPokemon

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[SWITCH] Luigi's Mansion 3 - "2F: Mezzanine"
[MUSX] [MUS] [MIDI] [PDF] [WAV]


I decided to challenge myself a bit by writing this, rather than in B-flat minor (the less extreme option), in the enharmonic key of A♯ minor. This resulted in really challenging part-writing. For example, in measures 11-12. This part of the RH phrase is totally diatonic to A♯ minor, with the exception of the D-double-sharp that ends the phrase. In this case, you might think E♮ makes more sense, and it is certainly easier to read, but if you think tonally, the function of this pitch is actually as a #4, not a ♭5. The non-harmonic tone being accented and the implied resolution up to 5 (E♯) being withheld only serve to complicate this a little more. Tl;dr -- this really tested my theory knowledge.

Because of all the fun accidentals going on, I tried to include courtesies wherever I thought they might be helpful. It's possible I missed some.

Looking forward to finally being a part of this update!
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 08:01:08 PM by SlowPokemon »
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SlowPokemon

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All right I fucked up and this is actually 2F, not 3F, but I’ll fix that after getting feedback.
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Static

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Nice to see Luigi's Mansion 3 getting some more attention!

  • I know A# minor is a fun key to work in as an arranger, but I would actually suggest writing this in Bb minor (and later Eb minor) for the benefit of the reader (with a few alterations):
    • m7-8: Instead of transposing this to Ebb minor, keep it as D minor like it was in A# minor. I think this more clearly shows the pseudo-dominant functionality it has going back to the Bb minor chord.
  • Maybe it's just me being used to flat keys as a brass player, but I think it's way easier to read in this key, like night and day. That Gx major chord is just... Really cumbersome to say the least.
  • The left edge of the tempo marking ("Valse") should line up with the left edge of the time signature. It may look like it sticks out too far but this is actually preferred.
  • Maybe move the systems down a bit so that the composer/arranger text isn't right next to the title. There's enough space at the bottom to do this.

Really awesome arrangement overall, nice work.

SlowPokemon

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I see, I’ll consider the key change. Maybe I got carried away. But also, isn’t that part of what makes music so fun is these technical possibilities that aren’t terribly practical? (Not to mention even Bach favored some 7-sharp keys over 5-flats in the Well-Tempered Clavier, so it might be good practice for people to look at...)

Thanks for the advice, I’ll update the sheet for the formatting later this week regardless of whether I end up changing the key signatures. I’m assuming there aren’t any actual pitch errors you found?
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Static

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I see, I’ll consider the key change. Maybe I got carried away. But also, isn’t that part of what makes music so fun is these technical possibilities that aren’t terribly practical? (Not to mention even Bach favored some 7-sharp keys over 5-flats in the Well-Tempered Clavier, so it might be good practice for people to look at...)

Thanks for the advice, I’ll update the sheet for the formatting later this week regardless of whether I end up changing the key signatures. I’m assuming there aren’t any actual pitch errors you found?
I understand lol, I mean I have a sheet with 8 sharps (yes, E# minor with a Fx in the keysig) laying around somewhere... I'm just thinking about it more generally, like how most people will perceive the sheet. Usually I think it's best to go with whatever the simplest option is.

I didn't find any pitch errors when I looked though.

SlowPokemon

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Whoa that’s intense. 😂 I don’t know what I would do if I saw that key signature. What’s the sheet???
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Static

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It's this. I used it to keep the same interval from an earlier modulation from E minor to G# minor, but this time from C# minor to E# minor. That said, I arranged this a few years ago and would probably change it if I ever submitted it.

Latios212

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I agree with the suggestion here to write in flats instead of sharps. Among other things, seeing Bx as part of that Gx chord is... yikes xD
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My arrangements and YouTube channel!

who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

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SlowPokemon

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Yeah, it’s a lot. 😂
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SlowPokemon

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Finished editing the sheet. I did not rewrite it in B-flat minor. The links in this post are updated to contain the new files.
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Static

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Looks good overall, I just have a few other things to mention:
  • m16 beat 3 RH: I'm assuming you want the B to be restruck since it's part of the melodic line there, so I would remove the parentheses so there's no confusion that it should be played (it's fine that there's a B earlier). The melody B should have a higher priority than the accompaniment.
  • m21-22 RH: The slur is now colliding with the LH, this probably happened when you were adjusting the spacing.
  • m29 LH: The parentheses are colliding with the natural sign.
  • You might want to consider not using parentheses around courtesy accidentals. At least from my experience reading music, it's easier to read through a bunch of non-parenthesized accidentals simply because there's less symbols to read. I also just think it looks nicer on the sheet by reducing clutter. Less is more, sometimes. It's up to you though.
  • Since you want to keep this in A# minor, m7-8 should be written with sharps instead of naturals.
  • I would still very very strongly suggest writing this with flats. I really think it's much easier to read because there's way less double accidentals (~35 double sharps vs. only 7 double flats). In addition, the distant chords of Gx major and A# major are harder to understand at a glance compared to Bbb major because of their location on the circle of 4ths/5ths (Bbb scale only contains 1 double flat). And even more simply, a key signature with 5 accidentals is just plain easier to read than a key signature with 7; it's just less to think about. I know it's fun to think in weird keys, I really know, but it's not a good reader experience. I think it's really helpful to think about how an amateur would sight read a piece like this since that ultimately is the audience here at NSM - not music theorists.

SlowPokemon

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All right, fixed that stuff. Thanks for your help.

And even more simply, a key signature with 5 accidentals is just plain easier to read than a key signature with 7; it's just less to think about. I know it's fun to think in weird keys, I really know, but it's not a good reader experience. I think it's really helpful to think about how an amateur would sight read a piece like this since that ultimately is the audience here at NSM - not music theorists.

I get where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree on a fundamental level. It's only harder to read in 7 sharps because the trajectory of music has led people to practice reading in 7 sharps much less (or not at all). Key signatures like E major, with 4 sharps, can easily be read without any additional "things to think about" through practice; the same goes for keys in these extreme signatures. The only way to get these keys to be a "good reader experience" is to use them. Amateurs can handle a lot more than you'd think, and since my arrangement itself is fairly easy to play, I'm in favor of giving the performer the reading experience of 7 sharps that they probably wouldn't encounter otherwise. When I taught music theory last year, there were students who had a hell of a time trying to catch up in these concepts, and most of the issue was that they had never been assigned music in a key more extreme than B-flat or maybe E-flat. If you guys want to add a rule that we can't go beyond six accidentals as a starting key for an arrangement here (which I think would be a mistake), I'll change my arrangement, but otherwise I really don't want to.
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Static

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I get where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree on a fundamental level. It's only harder to read in 7 sharps because the trajectory of music has led people to practice reading in 7 sharps much less (or not at all). Key signatures like E major, with 4 sharps, can easily be read without any additional "things to think about" through practice; the same goes for keys in these extreme signatures. The only way to get these keys to be a "good reader experience" is to use them. Amateurs can handle a lot more than you'd think, and since my arrangement itself is fairly easy to play, I'm in favor of giving the performer the reading experience of 7 sharps that they probably wouldn't encounter otherwise. When I taught music theory last year, there were students who had a hell of a time trying to catch up in these concepts, and most of the issue was that they had never been assigned music in a key more extreme than B-flat or maybe E-flat. If you guys want to add a rule that we can't go beyond six accidentals as a starting key for an arrangement here (which I think would be a mistake), I'll change my arrangement, but otherwise I really don't want to.
Personally, I think it's better to write what is simplest and easiest to understand for the performer. I could write a piece in Ab major in G# major because players wouldn't otherwise encounter such a key, but why would I? It's cumbersome for the sake of being cumbersome. I would rather my musical ideas be clear and easy to execute the first time than waste valuable rehearsal time trying to figure out a passage with B double sharps. It's like writing a 4/4 piece in 4/64 or something, with lots of 256th notes everywhere. Sure it would sound the same and musicians should be able to decipher it, but most people aren't going to encounter anything like that outside of a theory or aural skills class, and most people who use this site are not music school students. It's just as you said: "most of the issue was that they had never been assigned music in a key more extreme than B-flat or maybe E-flat". I don't mean to imply everyone who isn't a formal music student is bad at music or anything, but I don't see a reason to write something complicated just to "test" our users or something, we're not a school. There's a very good reason why these kinds of keys are not used very much. I say this as a music student myself.

Also, music notation is not concrete. For example, in 99% of jazz charts, any chord with a #9 is almost always spelled as a b3 (sometimes this means having both the major and minor 3rd in the same chord); theoretically this isn't correct, but it is technically correct because it makes things less complicated (depending on key of course). Similarly, the #4 and b5 are sometimes interchangeable in order to make a musical line easy to read (Fn-F#-Fn-F# over and over again is kind of annoying to write and read). Why would composers make these simplifications? It's because getting good results on the first read is important. I know this piece isn't jazz but the same principles can apply to any written music.

Of course it's not like there isn't a use for 7-accidental key signatures, and I would actually prefer you to write this in A# minor if the piece contained many double flats in Bb minor, since it would be easier to read with naturals in A# major. But what you have is the opposite - many double sharps that don't need to be double sharps. In this case specifically, switching to Bb minor eliminates almost all of the double sharps without introducing many double flats.

Sorry for rambling lol, but hopefully this explains where I'm coming from a bit better.

With that said, if you really think that having this piece in A# minor makes the musical ideas in this piece more clear for the reader, then you can leave it, and I'll approve.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 08:48:19 PM by Static »
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mastersuperfan

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I could write a piece in Ab major in G# major because players wouldn't otherwise encounter such a key, but why would I? It's cumbersome for the sake of being cumbersome.
Seconded.
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there's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
The difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

Maelstrom

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Not to add another voice to the fray, especially one without a lot of formal training, but I think I agree with static. Looking at the two side by side, I could instantly tell what notes were being played in the Bb version while I had to think for a second looking at the A# version because every note in the chord had a double sharp. It's just not pleasant to sight read at all for what I feel is no good reason at all. If that's because of what I played, then I don't see the problem of it. To me, it feels like making the performer play in A# is like force feeding them veggies when there is no need to. Yes, it might be good for them, but, chances are, they'll just avoid it altogether next time and not gain from it. Personally, if I was browsing through sheets, I would just not touch it because of the excess of double sharps. Again, like static says, there is a time and a place for A# minor: to avoid an excess of double flats in Bb minor. But that is not the case here. I didn't mean to type this much, sorry if it comes across weirdly.
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