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Author Topic: Maelstrom's Halloween Sheet (that is also a replacement) - Sanctuary Fortress  (Read 315 times)

Maelstrom

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despite what the sheet on the site might tell you, 8vas are a good idea.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 01:04:15 PM by Maelstrom »
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mastersuperfan

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Re: Maelstrom's Replacement - Sanctuary Fortress
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2020, 05:32:41 AM »

edit: nvm I guess the thread title is accurate
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there's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
The difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

Libera

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I remember printing off the on-site version of this sheet like 10+ years ago when I was too young to realise it was bad.  This is definitely muchly improved.  Here are my comments are per usual:

-I'm not so sure about the chords in 11-13. 
Bar 11: The first chord sounds it should have a Bb rather than a D.  The second and third chords should also have Bbs in them (although I'd drop the C in the third one).  I also hear the melody going down to an Eb rather than up to a G at the end of bar 11.
Bar 12: This doesn't sound right for some reason but I can't find anything actually wrong with the chords so it might just sound a bit weird on piano.  I thought I'd convinced myself for a bit that they were Dm7 chords but I'm not sure they actually are.
Bar 13: I think the first chord is Cm rather than Ab.
-Same comments for 21-23.
-The semibreves in bar 97's left hand should extend through bar 98 also.
-There are three (I think) places where the bass does something slightly cooler at the start of the bar.  I think these are bars 27, 58 and 87.
-I think the triadic harmony in bars 31-32 sounds out place.  I mostly just hear a doubled line with the C pedaling throughout.  You could beef up the octaves with extra Cs but the triads sound odd to me.
-The harmony sounds like it's in fifths in bar 33 rather than sixths.
-Same comments about bars 38-41.
-The choir does a little echo of the synth line in bar 55/56 if you wanted to include that somehow.
-In bar 67 it sounds to me like the melody should jump up an octave after the first note.
-Same again in bars 67-71 about the harmonies.  The harmony is far more subtle in the original and I really don't think the triads work that well.  Particularly things like the low choir G moving to an F in 70 really stick out to me when compared to the original.
-Again for bars 75-83.  This section sounds even emptier in the original than 67-71 and yet the harmonies you've written in are fuller.  It's just a single melodic line here and the harmonies sound really out of place to me.
-It sounds like the left hand layer 1 minim thing should come in at bar 79 rather than 77.
-You have 8vas colliding in bars 43 and 87-90.
-Is there any reason for writing bars 83-86 without an 8va compared to the other instances of this phrase?
-I don't hear the choir in bars 87-90.
-For the last two pages the layout is more cramped than it needs to be.  You have space at the bottom and a little at the top to spread out the staves a bit more.

Maelstrom

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I tried to fill out the chords in the most natural sounding way rather than the most accurate. Hence some of the stuff you noticed. One thing I will not compromise on, no matter what, is the G at the end of measure 11.
Changed the rest of 11 according to your recs.
Leaving 12 and 13 as is. I went back and forth on m13 for a long time before settling on writing it as an a minor. The main reason for this is there are audibly more dissonances than the final chord of the measure on that beat, and it wouldn't make sense to have the same chord in both places. In addition, not starting and ending on the same chord gives the progression some shape.
Also changed 21
Changed 97
Changed the weird bassline bits. This song's idiosyncrasies are truly painful
Changed m31-33 and the like.
Addded the thing to 55 because why not
Slimmed down the harmonies and stuff in the later places. Left the Cs in for texture.
Idk what happened in the last 2 pages with spacing. Could have sworn it was fine when I finished it.
Killed the choir.
The reason 83-86 is written like it is is because it isn't flanked by 8va 16th segments. It would feel weird going from the chord in m82 to suddenly 8va for one note higher. I think it's much easier to mentally transition in m87, after the half rest.

File updated, finally

Libera

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Could you double check that you've put the right files up?  Quite a few of the things you've said have been changed haven't been but some have so I'm not sure what's intentional and what's not.

Maelstrom

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Hmm, I edited the dropbox file directly. I just now saved it outside and then replaced the file. What things don't you see changed?

Libera

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These two I noticed in particular, but it makes me unsure about the others.

Addded the thing to 55 because why not
Changed the weird bassline bits. This song's idiosyncrasies are truly painful

Maelstrom

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well, it looks like those were becasue I made the changes to the wrong measures. They're fixed now

Libera

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I tried to fill out the chords in the most natural sounding way rather than the most accurate. Hence some of the stuff you noticed. One thing I will not compromise on, no matter what, is the G at the end of measure 11.

I do see what you're trying to do in general but I think in some places (less now) it sounds too 'normal' compared to the original.  As in the harmonies sound too standard because you remove pedals in favour of reinforcing triads that dubiously exist.  (If that makes sense).  One place that I'd really suggest editing is the lower choir notes in bars 69-70 and 77-82 to keep them as all Gs.    Specifically about that G at the end of bar 11, I still definitely hear it as an Eb.  I think the synth plays a G at that exact point which may be throwing you off, but I really do not hear the choir going back up to the G.  Maybe we'll have to get another updater to check it.

Leaving 12 and 13 as is. I went back and forth on m13 for a long time before settling on writing it as an a minor. The main reason for this is there are audibly more dissonances than the final chord of the measure on that beat, and it wouldn't make sense to have the same chord in both places. In addition, not starting and ending on the same chord gives the progression some shape.

(I assume by A minor you mean Ab major.)  I can't hear any Abs in that chord at all so I don't really understand this choice, whereas I can prominently hear Gs.  Also, on second inspection I think the rhythm of the phrase in bar 13 is different to what you've written in with there being an extra chord on beat 2.5 before it drops down.  Also also, I think that the difference in inversion is responsible for changing the sound of the chord (which you already have written in) so I don't think it's necessary to introduce erroneous changes to get the difference across.

-It sounds like the left hand layer 1 minim thing should come in at bar 79 rather than 77.

You didn't mention this, but listening to it again I can now hear the choir starting in 77.  The difference is that the choir sings two crotchet beats rather than a minim like usual (and it's a bit quieter which I think is why I missed it).

Changed the weird bassline bits. This song's idiosyncrasies are truly painful

If you're changing them I think they should be consistent across the three instances.  In bar 27 you write in a note on beat 1 whereas in the other two instances you leave a rest on beat 1.  Also, in bar 57 the final three notes of the bass should be up the octave like the other two times.

-You have 8vas colliding in bars 43 and 87-90.

You still have the collision in bar 43.



Everything else makes sense / looks good to me.

Maelstrom

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Ok messed with bars 77-78 and they are now how I hear it.

I've actually warmed up to the 8b and I've changed it now. Also neutralized the chords the LH was making where you indicated.

I'm 100% positive that there's not a chord on b2.5 of m13. There is, however, most certainly one in m23

Changed m13

also made 27 consistent, idk why I heard something different there than elsewhere.

File updated

Libera

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Also neutralized the chords the LH was making where you indicated.

F is still in bar 70 if you missed it.

I'm 100% positive that there's not a chord on b2.5 of m13. There is, however, most certainly one in m23

Yeah the melody voice definitely doesn't move there but I think I was hearing the lower voices move.  Either way I agree that it probably makes sense to keep it how you have it.

Maelstrom

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Alright, done

Libera

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Great, sorry about the back and forth but I shall approve now.

Latios212

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Feedback! This looks solid, I don't have too much more to add.

- If I were MSF, I'd probably suggest moving the beginning of the 8va in m. 1 left a bit
- Overall comment - I think the rests in the LH part would look better lower (i.e. not hanging from the bottom staff line) as they'd be on the same horizontal level as the low C notes. Your choice on how you want to handle it, though, since it does jump up sometimes, but I think it'd look neater.
- You use an 8va over m. 52-55, 63-66, and 97-100 but not 83-86. Probably best to keep it consistent?
- Do you want any variation in dynamics for the piece? It's all mf for most of the piece through the 16th note and melody parts, though it's fine if you want to keep if that way.

Also is it just me or is the RH part from m. 33 not really there in m. 40?
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mastersuperfan

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- If I were MSF, I'd probably suggest moving the beginning of the 8va in m. 1 left a bit

I approve of this message.
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there's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
The difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.
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