Hosting and Balancing

[blueflower999]

Dang, what a complex game! 

I do like it, but I might not play very well! (As if I ever do)

[Greg]

Bowser: Possesses a Dark Cannon that he can use to convert any character into trophy form once per night phase. When in trophy form, character's votes count for 0. Characters will not be notified if they are in trophy form. If a character is hit while in trophy form, they will die.
Ganondorf: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
Wario: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
Tabuu: Master wolf shaman. If he is lynched, he will kill either Dedede or Lucario, if they are still alive. If he is the last wolf alive he will gain a vigi power. Also, any blue player will appear green to him.

King Dedede: Can give a character a Dedede Brooch each night phase. The phase after this character is first trophied (or the next phase if the character is currently in trophy form), the character will revive from trophy form. This extends to reviving a character who is trophied twice (although they will still be in trophy form). Will fail on dead players, wolves, and himself.
Lucario: Can use its aura sight to investigate a player each night phase.
Mario: Can detrophy any live player once. If used on a player who is not trophied, the power is wasted.
Link: See Mario.
Samus: See Mario.
Marth: See Mario.
Falco: See Mario.
Snake: See Mario.
ROB: Miller. Also has Mario's power.
Sonic: Twice in the game he can guess Tabuu's identity. If he guesses correctly, he disables Tabuu's Brutal effect. The first attempt to trophy him will fail.

Rebalanced.

[Bird]

1. Bowser: Possesses a Dark Cannon that he can use to convert any character into trophy form once per night phase. When in trophy form, character's votes count for 0. Characters will not be notified if they are in trophy form. If a character is hit while in trophy form, they will die.
2. Ganondorf: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
3. Wario: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
4. Tabuu: Master wolf shaman. If he is lynched, he will kill either Dedede or Lucario, if they are still alive. If he is the last wolf alive he will gain a vigi power. Also, any blue player will appear green to him.

5. King Dedede: Can give a character a Dedede Brooch each night phase. The phase after this character is first trophied (or the next phase if the character is currently in trophy form), the character will revive from trophy form. This extends to reviving a character who is trophied twice (although they will still be in trophy form). Will fail on dead players, wolves, and himself.
6. Lucario: Can use its aura sight to investigate a player each night phase.
7. Mario: Can detrophy any live player once. If used on a player who is not trophied, the power is wasted.
8. Link: See Mario.
9. Samus: See Mario.
10. Marth: See Mario.
11. Falco: See Mario.
12. Snake: See Mario.
13. ROB: Miller. Also has Mario's power.
14. Sonic: Twice in the game he can guess Tabuu's identity. If he guesses correctly, he disables Tabuu's Brutal effect. The first attempt to trophy him will fail.

Reformatted, since games without numbering are all uniformly awful.

You need to clarify some stuff before I can accurately assess the game's balance. How long does trophy form last? If two of the wolves dark cannon somebody in a single night, does that player die? The whole trophy mechanism could use some clarification. And Tabuu's seer power is totally useless, since every single result he gets will be green except for the miller. And knowing who the miller is isn't super helpful. Is Lucario a seer? The "investigate" term is ambiguous.

As things are now, even though I'm not clear on some things, I'd say that the game is balanced heavily in favor of the wolves. Ignoring the dark cannon and trophying mechanics it might be balanced, but factoring those in can only help the wolves. Tabuu could mess things up very easily as well for the humans, with the ability to very easily eliminate the humans single decent role (the seer).

[blueflower999]

I agree with Bird. The game looks pretty unfair for the humans. 

[Greg]

The wolves don't have actual wolfings, all the kills are through Dark Cannon.
Trophication is permanent, dual dark cannons result in death (unless averted if a player is targeted for detrophying in the same night). Tabuu seers all the wolves red. And the wolves don't know each other. Apologies for not saying all of these things earlier. >_>

[Bird]

Oh!

Okay then. It's probably pretty good to be honest. So the only thing I'm not sure about now is Dedede's brooches. They're permanent? And they prevent death due to double trophycation?

[vermilionvermin]

Davy:

Since the armor of Achilles is given to a guaranteed human, that person will certainly be able to set up an alliance Night 1.  If that's your intention, that's fine, but keep it in mind when balancing.  The humans don't have to deal with Mr. Mutou to set up an alliance.

I don't see much of a purpose for the Pope's power other than just being a human who knows who he is unless he can use that lynch-guarding on himself.

Does Magnus know who he's morphed into?

Is the Armor of Achilles permanent?

What happens if I have a lantern and try to pass it to an independent?

If someone is killed but survives that kill, are you going to say that to the thread?  That changes the balance of the game greatly.  If the Strange Man is wolfed but it's announced that he survives, that makes him the obvious target for lynching through no fault of his own.

But the biggest issue with this game is that the independents are way underpowered, and making them have enough power would give the humans very little chance to win.  If even one of them is lynched at any point in the game, the other has to rely on not getting lynched himself and winning a KiTB at the end of the game.  Just compare their chances of winning to the wolves' because that's the easiest comparison.  The wolves have three people who count toward their easier win condition and a fourth who wants to achieve that win condition, AND the wolves also have a nightly kill.  And they know each other.  The strange man guessing the identities of the Lantern holders is very unlikely since all incriminating lantern seerings will be announced via the alliance.

Maestro, I'll look over your game next.

[Greg]

Oh!

Okay then. It's probably pretty good to be honest. So the only thing I'm not sure about now is Dedede's brooches. They're permanent? And they prevent death due to double trophycation?

Permanent until they're used up.
If somebody with a brooch is doubly trophied, they are revived the phase after, in trophy form (as if only one trophication took effect).

[vermilionvermin]

Maestro:

My initial reaction is that the veto is almost always going to be a bad thing.  It requires 2/3 of the vote, and given that the wolves comprise 1/4 of the game, you're going to either have all the humans lynch together, which is unlikely, or you're going to need some wolves to support it, which is also not going to happen unless they're lynching a human, in which case it'd just be better to follow the leader.

In most cases, the leader is going to decide things based on a democratic vote.  The leader's ability to make late changes to their lynch target is going to have a severe impact on the game.

The State of Panic is not something that should happen in any game.  Lynches should never be decided solely by a Random Number Generator.

I think it'd be interesting if there were no guardian and the line of succession went King > Prince > Public.  Then, the wolves would have to decide when and if to kill off the leader.

I'm worried about inactivity with this game.  If I'm a regular human and I get my role PM, I'm not excited about it because my vote is pretty much worthless.  I can try convincing the king, but the king listening to me is unlikely.  Even the best lynches rarely get enough people to insta, let alone overriding the king.

[vermilionvermin]

Double post.

I was thinking about adding the following item to my game (and possibly a Spongebob theme?!) but I'm looking for some feedback on it first.

Magic Conch:  Starts with the vigi.  During Night 1, he must pass it to another player, who will receive it Day 1.  Let's call that player Jimmy.  During Night 2, Jimmy has two jobs:

First, Jimmy must put two names into the conch.

Second, Jimmy must pass the conch to a third player who cannot be the vigi.  Let's call that player Bobby.

Bobby may put two names into the conch as well during Night 3.

At the start of Day 3, if neither Jimmy nor Bobby is a wolf, the conch will release the list of the people who touched the conch and how many of those people are wolves, zombies, specials, and humans, but not which ones go with which roles.  It will also tell the thread that Jimmy and Bobby held the conch.  If one of Jimmy or Bobby is a wolf, the conch will say nothing.  If either Jimmy is killed Night 1 or Day 1 or Bobby is killed Night 2 or Day 2, the conch explodes.

The game, for reference.

Spoiler

TWG:  Zombies

As I mentioned in my last post here, I'm designing a game in which everyone gets a death posts, except for a few people, that is.  I'm expecting it to function as a pseudo-cardflip, in which people have to weigh the benefits of confirming their humanity with waiting until late in the game to give much-needed insight or push an important suspicion.

Wolves

1.  Master Wolf
2.  Wolf Shaman:  Does not get a death post
3.  Wolf Totem:  Once per game, may replace the Totem Guy's Totem with a Totem of his own.  He also gets two guesses of the Totem Guy's identity per day phase.  If the Totem Guy dies or takes over the role of another Zombie, he gets to write ALL the totems.  Does not get a death post

Humans

4.  Guardian:  In order to guard the seer or vigilante, must reduce their power use by 1 each attempted guarding.  He also gets three guesses of the Totem Guy's identity on Day 1.  When he dies, he has one phase to decide who he passes his power to.  If he selects a Wolf or a Zombie, that player will gain a guardian power (with the same limitations) and the ability to choose whether or not their vote counts.  If he selects a human, that player will lose their vote but gain a Guardian ability with the same limitations as the original Guardian.
5.  Seer:  5 uses of power.  May only use one per night.
6.  Vigilante:  3 uses of power.  May only use one per night.
7.  Human:  Told he/she is a human until his/her death.  May not make deathpost until confirmation that he/she is not a miller.
8.  Human: All human roles are the same.
9.  Human:
10.  Human:
11.  Human:
12.  Human:
13.  Human:

Zombies

14.  Zombie Leader:  Beginning Night 2, he may bite dead bodies. If, on any night, he bites the same player the Grave Robber resurrects, that person becomes a Zombie follower.  The Zombie leader may direct each one of his Zombie followers to kill one person per night.  May not be revived.  Does not know his partners.
15.  Grave Robber:  Beginning Night 2, he may choose one of the people who are in the graveyard each night to resurrect.  If he and the Zombie Leader choose the same person, that person will be revived and kill one person at the command of the Zombie leader PER NIGHT.  If he selects someone the Zombie Leader doesn't pick, that person can just come back to life.  Does not get a death post.  Does not know his partners.
16.  Totem Guy:  May post a Totem each night.  If, by Day 2, neither the Wolf Totem or Guardian have guessed his identity, he will learn the identities of the Zombie Leader and the Grave Robber.  If either the Zombie Leader or Grave Robber dies, he may take over for them, becoming green as well.  Does not get a death post.  May not be revived.  Does not know his partners.

Important notes:
1.  Zombie followers are people resurrected by the Grave Robber and bitten by the Zombie Leader on the same night.  If the Zombie leader bites someone on Night 3 and they're resurrected Night 4 (or vice versa), that person simply comes back to life.  Zombie followers do not count toward the Zombie win condition.
2.  If a person becomes a zombie follower once and is lynched, they can't become a zombie follower once more.  They could still theoretically be revived, they just can't be controlled to kill people.
3.  Win Conditions:  The humans win when they eliminate both the wolves and the Zombies.  The wolves win when their number equals the number of humans + the number of Zombies remaining.  The Zombies win when their number equals the number of humans + the number of Wolves remaining.  The Zombies' win condition overrides the wolves' win condition.

[close]

[davy]

Davy:

Since the armor of Achilles is given to a guaranteed human, that person will certainly be able to set up an alliance Night 1.  If that's your intention, that's fine, but keep it in mind when balancing.  The humans don't have to deal with Mr. Mutou to set up an alliance.

I like alliances, and the armor seems to be a good way of creating one. Humans will still be unable to claim their own role, and Mr. Mutou still has his negating ability. Also, aside from the armor, humans have no protection from wolfings, so the humans have to be carefull with their armor.

I don't see much of a purpose for the Pope's power other than just being a human who knows who he is unless he can use that lynch-guarding on himself.

He can prevend the lynching of the armor holder, but other than that, his power is not that usefull. I'll probably change that.

Does Magnus know who he's morphed into?

Yes

Is the Armor of Achilles permanent?

The armor can block any number of wolfings. However, if the holder is lynched, the armor will disappear and even if the holder is revived by Tatl, the armor will not reappear.

What happens if I have a lantern and try to pass it to an independent?

Laterns will be passed to a random player. You do not choose what player recieves it.

If someone is killed but survives that kill, are you going to say that to the thread?  That changes the balance of the game greatly.  If the Strange Man is wolfed but it's announced that he survives, that makes him the obvious target for lynching through no fault of his own.

I hadn't thought about that yet, but it's probably indeed better not to tell if there was no wolving or a blocked wolving. This however means that Mutou can easily kill the strange man if the wolving is blocked, but I guess there's nothing to do about that.

But the biggest issue with this game is that the independents are way underpowered, and making them have enough power would give the humans very little chance to win.  If even one of them is lynched at any point in the game, the other has to rely on not getting lynched himself and winning a KiTB at the end of the game.  Just compare their chances of winning to the wolves' because that's the easiest comparison.  The wolves have three people who count toward their easier win condition and a fourth who wants to achieve that win condition, AND the wolves also have a nightly kill.  And they know each other.  The strange man guessing the identities of the Lantern holders is very unlikely since all incriminating lantern seerings will be announced via the alliance.

You're right. I'll make a few changes about them too. However, I want to keep the team focussed on finding the laterns, so I might make some changes to their original roles.

[Yugi]

I have a half done Idea for a game.

TWG: Alturnate Dimension game.

Master Wolf Painter
Brutal Wolf
Wolf

Seer
Guardian

Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Miller: If killed, a random person dies.

Like a normal game, except, in a random phase. All the living players and all the living roles are put in a randomiser. And everyones role switches. May happen 1-3 times in the game.

Also looking for a game theme, I'm thinking of either Inception, Persona 4, Chrono trigger or Legend of Zelda Ocarina of time.

Help???

[blueflower999]

Is the Master Wolf Seer'd black?

[Yugi]

Oops.

[vermilionvermin]

What purpose does switching roles serve?  It increases the chances that people who play well end up hurting the team they end up on, and makes intentionally hurting your team, particularly as a wolf, a legitimate strategy.