TWG LVIII - The Boy's Forest of Tears [Evaluation]

[Toby]

The Boy's Forest of Tears - Evaluation



The Participants:

01. Mashi
02. Davy
03. Bird
04. BlackDragonSlayer
05. Bubbles
06. Mariolegofan
07. SlowPokemon
08. MaestroUGC
09. Dude
10. Liggy
11. Fank009
12. TheZeldaPianist275
13. K-NiGhT
14. FireArrow
15. Mr. Tanooki Suit
16. Contranegative
17. Mr. E
18. Vermilionvermin

___________________________________________________

Humans Won!

Game Setup

01.    Box Keeper
02.    Box Keeper
03.    Box Keeper
04.    Box Keeper
05.    Box Keeper
06.    Box Keeper
07.    Seer
08.    Guard
09.    Bodyguard- Can survive only one Night Kill
10.    Human
11.    Human
12.    Human
13.    Human
14.    Mason

15.    Wolf-  ~ Have 4 little red boxes between them
16.    Wolf-
17.    Wolf-

18.   Third Party Role     - Each night can choose between a role block or a seer
                 - Takes 2 night hits to kill
                 - Has a nightly kill
                 - Has 1 little red box

[close]

Role Reveal

01. Mashi – Box Keeper 5
02. Davy/Thiannon – Human 12
03. Bird – Mason 13
04. BlackDragonSlayer – Wolf 17
05. Bubbles – Third Party Role
06. Mariolegofan – Mason 14
07. SlowPokemon – Human 11
08. MaestroUGC – Human 10
09. Dude – Wolf 16
10. Liggy – Wolf 15
11. Fank009 – Guard
12. TheZeldaPianist275 – Box Keeper 2
13. K-NiGhT - Seer
14. FireArrow - Box Keeper  4
15. Mr. Tanooki Suit – Box Keeper 1
16. Contranegative – Box Keeper 6
17. Mr. E – Box Keeper 3
18. Vermilionvermin – Bodyguard

[close]

Night and Day Actions

Night 1 Actions

Bubbles kills BDS.
Bubbles Role blocks Bird.
Bubbles gives box to Mariolegofan

Knight Seers Verm
Fank guards Bird
Verm Bodyguards Bird

Contranegative sends a box to Mr.E
Mr.E sends a box to Contranegative
Mr.E Bodyguards Bird

Wolves kill Mashi (BDS sent in PM)


Day 1 Votes

Davy
Bird - Mr. Tanooki Suit
Bubbles - Slowpokemon
Mariolegofan
SlowPokemon - Liggy
MaestroUGC - Vermilionvermin
Dude - Dude
Liggy - Vermilionvermin
Fank009 - Vermilionvermin Maestro
TheZeldaPianist275
K-NiGhT - Slowpokemon Liggy
FireArrow
Mr. Tanooki Suit
Contranegative - Slowpokemon
Mr. E - Vermilionvermin Mr. Tanooki Suit
Vermilionvermin - Davy Liggy Mr. Tanooki Suit

Mr. Tanooki Suit - 3
Slowpokemon - 2
Liggy - 2
Vermilionvermin - 2
Dude – 1


Night 2 Actions

Bubbles sends a box to Contranegative
Bubbles roleblocks Vermilionvermin
Bubbles kills MaestroUGC

Vermilionvermin bodyguards Bird
Knight seers Slowpokemon
Fank guards Knight

Contranegative bodyguards Fank
Contranegative sends a box to Mr. E
Mr. E sends a box to Contranegative

Wolves kill Bubbles (sent in by Liggy)
Liggy seers Thiannon


Day 2 Votes

Thiannon
Bird  - TheZeldaPianist
Bubbles - TheZeldaPianist
Mariolegofan
SlowPokemon -
Dude - Contranegative
Liggy - Slowpokemon
Fank009 – FireArrow, TheZeldaPianist
TheZeldaPianist275
K-NiGhT - TheZeldaPianist
FireArrow
Contranegative – K-Night
Mr. E - Fank
Vermilionvermin –

TheZeldaPianist – 4
K-Night – 1
Fank – 1
Contranegative – 1
Slowpokemon - 1


Night 3 Actions

Dude Bodyguard Liggy
Wolves wolf Mariolegofan (sent in by Liggy)
Liggy seers Verm

Fank guards K-Night
Verm bodyguards K-Night
K-Night seers Bird
Bubbles Roleblocks Verm
Bubbles sends a box to Contranegative
Bubbles Kills Fank

Contranegative sends a box to Mr.E


Day 3 Votes

Thiannon -
Bubbles – K-Night
SlowPokemon -
Dude - Bubbles
K-NiGhT - Contranegative
Contranegative – K-Night
Vermilionvermin –  Bubbles K-Night

K-Night – 3
Bubbles - 1


Night 4 Actions

Vermilionvermin Bodyguard Bird

Mr.E sends a box to FireArrow

Liggy sends 4 boxes to FireArrow
Wolves wolf Thiannon (sent in by Dude)

Bubbles seers Vermilionvermin
Bubbles Kills Liggy
Bubbles Gives box to contranegative


Day 4 Votes

Bird  - Contranegative
Bubbles - Contranegative
SlowPokemon -
Dude - Contranegative
FireArrow - Vermilionvermin Contranegative
Contranegative – Slowpokemon
Mr. E - Vermilionvermin Bubbles Slowpokemon
Vermilionvermin – Contranegative

Contranegative - 5
Slowpokemon – 2


Night 5 Actions

Wolves wolf Bubbles (Sent in by Dude)
Wolves choose to do nothing with boxes

Bubbles seers Dude
Bubbles kills Bird
Bubbles gives a box to Bird

Vermilionvermin gives a box to Bird

Bird bodyguards FireArrow
FireArrow gives a box to Bird


Day 5 Votes

Bird  - Dude
SlowPokemon -
Dude – Slowpokemon Mr. E
FireArrow -
Mr. E - Slowpokemon
Vermilionvermin – Mr. E

Slowpokemon – 2
Mr. E – 1


Night 6 Actions

Wolves Wolf FireArrow (sent in by Dude)
Wolves attempted to seer Bird

Vermilionvermin Bodyguards Bird


Day 6 Votes

Bird  - Dude
SlowPokemon -
Dude – Slowpokemon Dude
Vermilionvermin – Dude

Dude - 3

[close]

Secrets of the Game

What did "I won't be happy with anyone who steals leftover boxes." mean?

If you had leftover boxes I wouldn't count your action. For example; if you received 4 boxes and used a seer (which costed 3 boxes) then I wouldn't give you your seering result since you had 1 box leftover. Things became awkward when people received boxes and did nothing with them because the whole "I won't be happy with anyone who steals leftover boxes" thing became nonpunishable. Sadly, the wolves weren't able to take advantage of this when they found out what it meant (by night 2). If the humans were more organised with the boxes they could have gave someone who was wanting boxes to be sent to them, a load of boxes, hopefully getting them a total of more than 5 boxes which would have meant all the boxes which would have been sent to thus person became useless since the dearest ability was the vigi.

What was the role reveal based on?

Roles were revealed if the player died during the night. They weren't if the player died during the day.

In the stories who were 'Player X' or 'Player Y'?

On the player list, whatever number you had on there, that was your player number in the story.

Did the stories mean anything?

Nope, they were just to get the minds of people going. I tried to get people to think that perhaps the stories gave the players a clue, but really, they meant nothing.

Why did Mashi flip as "Box Keeper 5" when no one else knew what number of Box Keeper they were and why did FireArrow just flip as "Box Keeper"

To get you guys thinking, to get you talking, to get you confused.

What did the crosses on foreheads mean? And how were they determined?

The crosses on foreheads meant that you would be taken away at the start of the next day phase. They were determined at random. The amount of players that would have crosses on their foreheads was already known.

What did the 'Burning's' mean? And how were they determined?

The Burning's were just a scare mechanic to get you guys thinking the worst, but really they meant nothing. Who dies a little fire burn? They were determined at random. The amount of players that would have been burned were already known. The fact that Bird posted first and was burned first was just coincidence.

[close]

Player Analysis

Mashi
You were wolfed Night 1 which was a shame. You were wolfed so hopefully Bird and Verm would argue and one would be lynched. Most of your posts seemed to be joke posts but you did offer some good points. You were against people claiming to Verm which I thought would have been a good idea if I was in your position. You were for the idea that people claim to Bird but if I remember rightly, you didn't claim to him? You also didn't send in an action which was shameful of you. You broke one of the rules of editing and should be slaughtered with toenails for it. The post you made after included some good info, it would have been nice to show a suspicion list or offer some stronger thoughts, although you did quote your PM and it did seem likely you were human anyway, maybe you should have screen shot it too.

Davy
You posted once and that was to drop out, I shall eat your toes off.

Thiannon
You joined the game late, which isn't always easy. I was actually quite disappointed in you! I expected you to come up with some cunning and intelligent plan but you didn't really do much. You seemed to just agree with everyone and apologize for not being helpful, heh. You did however speculate about the setup of the game a little and try picture what the roles could be, you reminded players that it was balanced by 'freaking Manti' but no one seemed to take notice. Next time it'd be nice if you helped more with lynches. I was looking forward to you having a strong case against someone but apart from being wary of Contranegative a little, it never really happened.

Bird
Throughout the game you made strong opinions and made good decisions. Whenever a decision was made, you were there to make it. You didn't trust Verm's claim and I suppose you agreed that we needed an alliance. You pretended someone had PM'd you saying that they were a mason but in actual fact you were a mason yourself. I would have liked you to maybe help Mariolegofan more and although he didn't message you, you should have insisted on helping him. I don't understand why you revealed him but hey ho. You didn't seem to understand the rules with the boxes in the game which was a bummer. I expected you to maybe co-ordinate the boxes better from Night 1 since they were meant to be the main focus of the game. Although activity let everyone down, I didn't really see you attempt anything. You seemed to look into everything which was nice; I liked how you were curious at every mystery that was presented. You had a nice alliance going that was almost infiltrated by Bubbles! Sadly when you were taken away from the game K-Night was lynched and surprisingly enough it wasn't because of the wolves! You suspected people for letting the lynch go by when in actual fact they turned out to be human. Somehow you led the humans to a victory on the last phase when Dude wolfed FireArrow and you came to the conclusion that Verm was a bodyguard and SlowPokemon was too inactive to send in Night Actions. You played pretty decently and made the right decision on the last phase. Due to the lack of understanding of the games main mechanic, you've been awarded an HO instead of MVP!
Honourable Mention

BlackDragonSlayer
No! No! No! After seeing how you played as a wolf on that game on LLF and even managed to get MVP, I was excited to watch you play. As soon as I saw those PM's you were sending to the other wolves though I knew exactly how you achieved it! The evaluations and speculations you were making were quite remarkable. The effort you put in and showed were quite admiring. Nice work! The only thing I'd say was wrong was possibly the wolfing choice. Mashi mentioned he didn't believe Verm's claim because he wasn't sure if special powers would even exist (he even said he didn't have a special power) and although he did happen to be a box keeper you maybe should have taken into consideration the posts he was making as many were 'joke posts'. The wolfing was fine in the end since he was a box keeper but you didn't know that at the time!

Bubbles
You did well bud. You killed 2/3 wolves and seer'd the third which was nice... but you weren't human. You ended up probably saving the humans from losing the game, which isn't that bad since you couldn't have won anyway, but had you still been alive, it would have been bad. Once you found out that you had been targeted once and that you did seem pretty human in the game, you probably should have tried to act a little strange, suspicious even to try and avoid the wolves from wolfing you. You seemed to have a good understanding of the game too which was also nice. Had there not been any other killers in this game I would say you would have won it. Just next time try to be more wary of the roles in the game.
Honourable Mention

Mariolegofan
You were confused a lot. You posted little but that's okay since it's your first game. You asked me a lot of questions that I host can't really answer. I don't really know if you asked Bird them like I said since I didn't see any PM's between you two really. Apart from possibly being a Wolf with Bird and Vermilionvermin you had one of the best possible roles you, yourself could have possibly had. You didn't have to send in a night action, which is nice and simple for your first game and you had a very experienced mason partner who also as a bonus, was part of the TWC! Apparently, unless Verm made it up you said you thought Bird might be a wolf. I told you Bird was human and he was your partner! You should of maybe asked me if it made Bird a human 100% guaranteed, because it did. You ended up being wolfed for some reason but hey ho. Next time maybe read through the rules more thoroughly, read some past games and talk to the TWC if you are confused about anything that I can't help with.

SlowPokemon
Onions.
Game ban please?

MaestroUGC
You were pretty quiet, didn't offer much, played as some sort of distressed character. Didn't post too often. Started a fire later on in the game, shame on you. Next time try to be a little bit more helpful.

Dude
You did pretty well. You lay low throughout the game and seemed to go unnoticed for a lot of it. You made a few silly errors and almost gave yourself away but people thought you were just being Dude for it. I couldn't tell if some of them were on purpose though (like switching for SlowPokemon in that last minute lynch) because people seemed to think that would be the kind of trouble a wolf wouldn't want to get in to. You were a nice partner for Liggy and I think he enjoyed working with you. You might some strange choices for wolfing's on your own but that was ok. I think you probably would have won the game had you not wolfed FireArrow though that last phase. Why did you do that? I'm really interested to know why. Were you just giving up? When people decided that you were the wolf you went down with dignity and slammed the hammer on yourself making the game end shorter than it would have needed to. Nice work, you're a cool guy, suck my toe!

Liggy
You began the game with claiming a normal human. Once you noticed how people were acting strange with it you decided to claim as a loner, which made sense. Had you claimed something like a box keeper or a miller suspicion would arise, but you risked it and went for loner, which I liked. You seemed to keep quiet in the thread but be active in the chat, which is always a nice strategy as a wolf. You were active through PM's and even managed to keep the mind-set of a human when discussing ideas. You said not to claim to Verm, not because you were worried that it might have put you guys under pressure but because you didn't think he was trustworthy. Your wolfing's were pretty good and your team work with Dude was great. You two played well. The humans didn't suspect a thing from you and even when Bubbles killed you and you flipped wolf, they still thought you were a loner. You set the wolf team up nice so when you had died Dude was able to glide through the game if he kept down low. If Dude had maybe chosen a different wolfing target on the last phase you guys would have probably one! Oh well.
Honourable Mention

Fank009
You seemed to understand the game well, which was nice. You seemed to pick up on the fact that role reveals only occurred on Night deaths. During day 1 you voted Verm for not dying during the night, which was odd reasoning. Even though you did disagree with him claiming it was dumb to vote him. Don't you realize that if everyone followed that logic the wolves would maybe listen to you and not kill him? You seemed to lay down low through the game but you did alright. When K-Night claimed you realized it was a horrid idea (which it was). You always seemed to be one step ahead of everyone and played a good game. Bubbles eventually killed you Night 3 which was a shame; I was interested in seeing you possibly work out a plan for the boxes.

TheZeldaPianist275
You posted once which was to apologise for inactivity and say you trusted Vermilionvermin's claim. You also didn't send in any Night actions. Along with the other inactives, you can suck my toe.
Possible game ban?

K-NiGhT
At the beginning of the game you seemed to think that Box Keepers weren't human and I'm not sure if you ever did figure out they were human. I noticed you seemed to put extra effort into the game and you showed a lot of your ideas throughout. You ended up claiming randomly that you were the seer. Why? Bird was already being guarded by the guard so I don't understand why you came out and just expected to be guarded. Bird could have shared your information for you. You then later on claimed that Contra was Red for some reason and since Bird wasn't there to back you up you were lynched for some reason. I suspect everyone guessed you were lying.

FireArrow
You missed out on 6 Night Actions and seemed to be confused with the boxes. Just ask questions if you're confused. Bird told you to ask me a few things and you said you would, but I never received any PM's. You started off questioning Bird's claim, saying he'd need verification from his partner, which he later gave. Honestly, you were either going to believe his mason claim or you weren't. He could have just been a wolf and used his wolf partner as a fake mason partner, but hey ho, it was alright to question him. You became inactive for a while but you explained it was because of a virus you caught, which is alright. I was glad you caught up and done some speculation on the game. You trusted Verm, SlowPokemon and K-Night which was good and had decided to ignore Liggy for the time being. You said you wouldn't like to explain why you thought K-Night was human, which was pretty suspicious and strange. I'd question that immediately. You should of just not said that altogether. It brings unnecessary suspicion. People may have thought you were a wolf trying to act like you two were specials or some crazy shiz. You started to become really active which was nice and Bird included you in some sort of alliance, but then he later suspected you to be a wolf. Eventually Dude Wolfed you on the final night.

Mr. Tanooki Suit
I don't think you posted at all. Thank goodness the dimwit humans lynched you day 1. I saw you be active elsewhere and you didn't even have the decency to PM me over LLF or NSM.
Possible game ban?

Contranegative
You started off asking for Normal Humans to claim which could have been an easy way for the wolves to sneak in as confirmed humans and even have narrowed the amount of players down to just specials and box keepers so the wolves would have easy kill targets. You were lucky that only Liggy claimed (who was a wolf) but then he changed his claim to a non-overriding loner afterwards. You were very quiet throughout the game, only 15 posts. You did posts more than others though and most of your posts did have good quality in them. You suspected K-Night for coming out early, which was fine, but then it bit you in the but when you pretended you were red and got you lynched a few day phases after. During the game you and Mr. E seemed to have a sort of alliance going, you'd send him a box, he'd send you one too. A lot of the time you didn't do anything with the box you received though. Why? You seemed to be confused with the game a bit and how the boxes worked. You should have just asked questions. I can only tell you the answer or say I can't answer it.

Mr. E
You started off with a very logical post about the humans not being able to trust Vermilionvermin. All your posts were nice and very thought out and from a logical point of view.  You were very active throughout the game and I was interested in watching you play. You were active through chat which was a bonus too! You sent in an action almost every night which was nice and used your boxes too. You had a clear understanding of the game which was great and you seemed to help others a bit too. During the game you seemed to begin an alliance with Contranegative somehow and you guys came pretty close throughout the game which could have looked incredibly suspicious in certain people's points of view. When Contranegative was taking heat from K-Night's fake seering you seemed to stand up for Contranegative and you did well in protecting him! Unfortunately K-Night was actually the seer but you still stood up for a human anyway which is what counts! You ended up getting lynched the next day phase though, oh well.
Honourable Mention

Vermilionvermin
You started off with claiming to be a bulletproof bodyguard. It was a nice decent claim but why did you claim? They humans had no way of trusting you. I suspect you were just power hungry wanting to form your own alliance? Anyway, the claim ended up being pointless since no one trusted you and Bird claimed later as a mason which was apparently more believable. You had a nice plan with the other mason sending a PM to Sir Awesomesauce but I kind of felt awkward not knowing if it was against the rules or not. Nevertheless it was an interesting plan and I was looking forward to it being carried out whether it was against rules or not. Unfortunately the humans didn't go through with it!  You decided that everyone should trust Bird anyway, although there wasn't really anyway to know if he was telling the truth or not. That logic wasn't bad, but not good either, it was risky him coming out so I guess you presumed it was too much of a risk for a wolf to take. After taking suspicion from your bodyguard claim you seemed to just lie down completely, which wasn't that bad but I didn't see you exactly picking yourself back up later in the game. You seemed to rely on Bird a bit, which was alright but I would of liked you to voice your own opinion too, wolves tend to 'obey their master' and I would have picked you up on that had I been playing myself.  During the game you questioned Mariolegofan about being Birds mason partner. Although it seemed a bit late to even question Bird about not being human since he knew all the roles, better late than ever, eh? Mariolegofan seemed really confused and from what I saw you didn't ask him to ask me about Bird possibly being a wolf or something which would have been nice to say. You played alright throughout the game and on the last phase you helped Bird make the correct decision to lynch Dude, nice work. It would have been nice to see you think of a good way to coordinate the boxes, maybe next time try be more wary of the game you are playing.

[close]

[In Progress]


If there are any questions you need answered feel free to ask them and I'll either reply to them in the thread or stick them in the secrets section for you to read.

[Bubbles]

Wolves wolf Bubbles (Sent in by Dude)

D:

[Dude]

lmao you seered me at the same time but couldn't do anything! XD

[Bubbles]

I got the results anyway, so I knew you were a wolf the whole time!

I was considering claiming the truth to Bird Day 5 but I didn't last that long. I'm actually surprised I lasted as long as I did, since I always get lynched for inactivity

Despite being completely and hilariously wrong about Bubbles, I still think we should go for Dude this phase.

Did you think I was a Box Keeper or something?

[Toby]

I shall sleep now,
Will continue the post game tomorrow.

[fank009]

Cant believe in all that mess humans won xD
Quick thoughts,
Lets be honest, I was bored with the game day 2, and me dying...
I was shocked that there were 3 wolves...
That boxes thing... how was anyone to know??? :/
A part of me felt that this game was way too random.... (like that meph game, but worse :/)  I dont mind things being out of my control, but when nthings happening :/

A part of me thinks it was dumb luck that humans won... I'll have more thougjts later

[Bird]

bubbles for human mvp

Also, I guess this means k-NiGhT just lied about contranegative being red?

[Toby]

Yup.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Well then...

Only three wolves. In a game with fourteen humans (nine of which have powers one way or another, and considering the fact that the wolves have equivalent powers to only six of those) and a third party with a night kill (which ended up killing two wolves). Hrm.

[Bird]

Yeah, it was probably a little imbalanced. But it's also a mystery game -- we didn't know if we could trust any of the specials.

That being said, the wolves definitely would have won if Bubbles hadn't killed most of them.

[K-NiGhT]

Yeah i lied about Contra. It was a desperate attempt to clear my name and also a complete guess. I unfortunately was wrong, so I apologize.

[Toby]

Before I rebalanced it there were 2 red wolves, no masons and 1 less human.

[Liggy]

That being said, the wolves definitely would have won if Bubbles hadn't killed most of them.

Yeah, that was absolutely ridiculous.

So originally my role PM said that all the wolves were Brown, and it was really freaking confusing.  I was actually a little annoyed about that mistake, because it would have looked incredibly suspicious to suddenly go "oh I'm red sorry!"  Turns out it worked out, until I was killed.

Seriously Bubbles, way to single-handedly take out the wolves!

[Bubbles]

Apparently I'm only good at hunting wolves when I don't mean to

[Bird]

Looking back, I think most of our lynches were actually pretty reasonable.

Mr. Tanooki Suit could have saved himself by telling us he was a box keeper.
TheZeldaPianist had a similar situation.
k-NiGhT ended up getting himelf lynched by lying about a seer result. He could have told the alliance his plan and this crisis could have been avoided.
contranegative was doomed by k-NiGhT's lie as well.
Mr. E... well, this was probably our most questionable lynch.
And Dude was a wolf.

And considering for the majority of the game there were only two wolves we could have lynched anyway, I don't have any regrets about how things played out.