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NSM discusses the state of affairs

Started by Dude, March 26, 2016, 09:01:52 PM

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Dude

As a member of NSM, I, Dude, have a few complaints that need to be addressed. First, the way the staff (and I guess the whole forum in a way) has been divided has really been getting on my nerves and no one is addressing it. Half follow MaestroUGC and the rest... don't. They can't seem to agree on anything. I've also noticed a very large amount of favoritism by the mods as well. New members might not notice it at first but after a while certain mods will either start being really lenient or really harsh with punishments.

For example,
Quote from: Dude on December 31, 2015, 03:39:47 AM
Quote from: mariolegofan on December 30, 2015, 09:33:41 PMTake a shot every time Noc says he'll kill himself and doesn't
In case he edits it.

this only got him a warning, whereas this,

Quote from: Dude on March 20, 2016, 04:38:00 PM
Quote from: Dude on March 20, 2016, 04:34:10 PMThen make a post in said topic with your opinions on it.
Don't just link it and expect us to move there.
https://youtu.be/9oYs_hSlfy0
gets me banned for 3 days. I don't see why this should be the case because mods should be unbiased and I feel like this is one of many case where they misstepped.

Which brings me to my final point, why do we even have so many mods? We used to be able to handle this stuff fine with 2 or 3 mods at most... now we have, what, 4? It's really unnecessary. I'd really like it if you would address these concerns quickly.

Thank you for your time.
-Dude

Altissimo

Just want to say that Dude asked me to help draft this and so I agree with every point he's made. I don't want to go into any detail until tomorrow, though, since I'm going to bed and I can't say anything he hasn't already said really

BlackDragonSlayer

Quote from: Dude on March 26, 2016, 09:01:52 PMgets me banned for 3 days. I don't see why this should be the case because mods should be unbiased and I feel like this is one of many case where they misstepped.
Most websites don't appreciate people straight out insulting their mods, whether it is an indirectly or directly stated rule.

QuoteWhich brings me to my final point, why do we even have so many mods? We used to be able to handle this stuff fine with 2 or 3 mods at most... now we have, what, 4? It's really unnecessary. I'd really like it if you would address these concerns quickly.
To me, it feels like things (at least, discussions between members occuring on the forums) have generally been more civil lately, at least compared to other times, so I'm fine with it as long as things stay relatively peaceful and/or pleasant. In some cases, it's a good idea to have more mods so that it's more likely that there's at least one mod on at any given time (though I'm not suggesting we need more mods! I think the amount we have now is fine).
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

Fakemon Dex
NSM Sprite Thread
Compositions
Story Thread
The Dread Somber

Pianist Da Sootopolis

Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 26, 2016, 11:28:40 PMMost websites don't appreciate people straight out insulting their mods, whether it is an indirectly or directly stated rule.
It doesn't merit an extreme bias like that, nor one really at all. If you're taking on a position of authority, you have to put your big boy pants on and accept the fact that insults will probably be thrown at you at some point, and deal with them as if it were directed at whomever. You have to put aside your feelings and be objective; if someone is unable to do this, they shouldn't be a mod.
QuoteTo me, it feels like things (at least, discussions between members occuring on the forums) have generally been more civil lately, at least compared to other times, so I'm fine with it as long as things stay relatively peaceful and/or pleasant.
lol
IMO things get more heated when mods shut down controversial discussions the second they start. It never solves anything and all too often bottles up emotions.
 
QuoteIn some cases, it's a good idea to have more mods so that it's more likely that there's at least one mod on at any given time (though I'm not suggesting we need more mods! I think the amount we have now is fine).
This is somewhat true, but we can have that going well with 2 or 3. I'm less concerned about the number of mods and more concerned about certain mod's ability to be objective.

Dude is right.
what is shitpost

Zunawe

#4
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 26, 2016, 11:28:40 PMMost websites don't appreciate people straight out insulting their mods, whether it is an indirectly or directly stated rule.
It's not about insulting mods, it's about insulting people, which mods are. It should be no worse to say something teasing to a mod than it should be to a random member, and it should be no better to say something harmful to a member than it should be to a mod.

Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 26, 2016, 11:28:40 PMTo me, it feels like things (at least, discussions between members occuring on the forums) have generally been more civil lately
In my humble opinion, it hasn't changed a ton. And I hate to say it, but what you might be noticing is that some members are just choosing to be less active because of the environment.
You know you've been playing too much Dragon Quest when you're afraid your Hershey's Kisses are going to flee.

I program things

Ruto

Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 26, 2016, 11:28:40 PMMost websites don't appreciate people straight out insulting their mods, whether it is an indirectly or directly stated rule.

Not a bannable offense. Did Kefka ban Slow for those Binacle comments? No? You don't automatically try to send away everyone who you think insulting to you and cite "questioning authority" as the offense. This is not North Korea.

Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 26, 2016, 11:28:40 PMTo me, it feels like things (at least, discussions between members occuring on the forums) have generally been more civil lately, at least compared to other times, so I'm fine with it as long as things stay relatively peaceful and/or pleasant. In some cases, it's a good idea to have more mods so that it's more likely that there's at least one mod on at any given time (though I'm not suggesting we need more mods! I think the amount we have now is fine).

Hahaha as long as nothing seems wrong to you, it's completely fine!!! Never mind the mods (you know who you are) are taking sides and enabling this rubbish behavior. Unprofessional at best. You can't tell the hostility behind the curtain? I can, and I'm not even the most observant person I know.

If the more mods online is so great, then wouldn't it make sense to have mods that live in different time zones. How come all of you live between GMT -6 and GMT -7? How come all of you represent ONE demographic? Why is homophobia allowed? Etc.

I seem to be missing a piece of my ear.

KefkaticFanatic

Quote from: Ruto on March 26, 2016, 11:43:56 PMNot a bannable offense. Did Kefka ban Slow for those Binacle comments? No?

Yes, but after like 4 times.



me irl
[close]

Ruto

The new strike system has turned into a witch hunt. But the point is, you didn't issue a 1 week ban the first time. That's called being butthurt.

I seem to be missing a piece of my ear.

BlackDragonSlayer

Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on March 26, 2016, 11:38:05 PMIt doesn't merit an extreme bias like that, nor one really at all. If you're taking on a position of authority, you have to put your big boy pants on and accept the fact that insults will probably be thrown at you at some point, and deal with them as if it were directed at whomever. You have to put aside your feelings and be objective; if someone is unable to do this, they shouldn't be a mod.
That's not any excuse to be uncouth and belligerent just because you don't like somebody, or don't like what they're doing (especially when that person is in a position of authority; and the reason for the comment was pretty petty in the first place).

Quote from: Zunawe on March 26, 2016, 11:40:12 PMIt's not about insulting mods, it's about insulting people, which mods are. It should be no worse to say something teasing to a mod than it should be to a random member, and it should be no better to say something harmful to a member than it should be to a mod.
And Dude has consistently insulted a variety of people! :P In this specific case, that was pretty far from a poorly-thought-out-but-intended-to-be-lighthearted jab.

QuoteIn my humble opinion, it hasn't changed a ton. And I hate to say it, but what you might be noticing is that some members are just choosing to be less active because of the environment.
Aside from TWG (which is a different topic entirely), I don't really get the impression that things are super-inactive (not to mention that there are other reasons why people might not post or go inactive anyway, though that is a different topic as well); we can keep going back and forth with subjective opinions, but I don't think much will get done that way!

Quote from: Ruto on March 26, 2016, 11:43:56 PMNot a bannable offense. Did Kefka ban Slow for those Binacle comments? No?
Quote from: KefkaticFanatic on February 08, 2015, 06:16:36 PMAnd before somebody tries to be funny and replies with some dumb joke, being a snarky asshole is also a bannable offense.
It's to be expected that the mods should show discernment at what's crossing the line, and if other mods disagree with their decisions, they should voice their opinions! That's another reason why we have four mods... probably!

QuoteYou don't automatically try to send away everyone who you think insulting to you and cite "questioning authority" as the offense. This is not North Korea.
That's a pretty hyperbolic comparison, especially since:
1: We are nowhere near that state right now.
2: I am not suggesting we should be.
3: You seem to be misconstruing or exaggaterating the situation that was the catalyst for this discussion.

I mean, if anything, having less mods wouldn't help to change your opinion on this (unless those people are ones who are always on your side, I suppose), since you have less people to make judgement calls and peer reviews of decisions (essentially, if you have two people, it's entirely possible that those two people could completely agree with each other, which means that, when they're wrong, nothing gets done, but if you have more people, it's likelier that there will be more different opinions, and more voices to chime in).

QuoteHahaha as long as nothing seems wrong to you, it's completely fine!!! Never mind the mods (you know who you are) are taking sides and enabling this rubbish behavior. Unprofessional at best. You can't tell the hostility behind the curtain? I can, and I'm not even the most observant person I know.
I heavily get the impression that you're only taking into account one side of the situation, especially when you seem to be indirectly insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you.

QuoteIf the more mods online is so great, then wouldn't it make sense to have mods that live in different time zones. How come all of you live between GMT -6 and GMT -7?
As someone who's schedule is/was messed up, I can verify that there tends to be at least one mod on when most members are on. I haven't taken extensive screenshot proof of this, though.

QuoteHow come all of you represent ONE demographic? Why is homophobia allowed? Etc.
Maybe those are the people who are likely to try to/want to become mods? Maybe there are different ways of judging candidates than purely demographics? People tend to support order instead of anarchy? Ask Jamaha? I don't know, I'm not in charge and don't have behind the scenes knowledge into what goes into mod selection process?
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

Fakemon Dex
NSM Sprite Thread
Compositions
Story Thread
The Dread Somber

Dude

#9
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 27, 2016, 12:55:39 AMAs someone who's schedule is/was messed up, I can verify that there tends to be at least one mod on when most members are on. I haven't taken extensive screenshot proof of this, though.
4:07 AM EDT

No mods around.

Spoiler
[close]

BlackDragonSlayer

Quote from: Dude on March 27, 2016, 01:09:41 AM4:07 AM EDT

No mods around.

Spoiler
[close]
Spoiler
[close]
At or during the time I made my post, both Kefka and Maestro were on (Kefka's profile currently says: Last Active: Today at 01:17:18 AM). Though, I must emphasize this part of my post... aside from the fact that I never suggested that there should be mods on 24/7.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 27, 2016, 12:55:39 AMwhen most members are on
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

Fakemon Dex
NSM Sprite Thread
Compositions
Story Thread
The Dread Somber

Dude

I'm on, and a few others I guess.

I mean I could make a complete shitstorm in the time they were gone but that's not what I try to do.

Altissimo

#12
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 27, 2016, 12:55:39 AMMaybe those are the people who are likely to try to/want to become mods? Maybe there are different ways of judging candidates than purely demographics? People tend to support order instead of anarchy? Ask Jamaha? I don't know, I'm not in charge and don't have behind the scenes knowledge into what goes into mod selection process?
Nobody should "try" to become a mod. Ever. If someone wants to be a mod they are not worthy of being a mod, period at the end.

Besides, I don't have an issue with homophobic or w/e mods. I have an issue with mods who say homophobic things in the community, directly hurting part of the userbase, and no one is allowed to call them out on it. Why should that be fair?

As for Jamaha... he hasn't been around lately looool :x

edit: also i really dont see why we're not allowed to publicly air issues with mods, many other places i've been at welcome that kind of discussion, it seems rather "North Korea"-esque as Ruto would have it to automatically stifle complaints...

Ruto

QuoteThat's a pretty hyperbolic comparison, especially since:
1: We are nowhere near that state right now.
2: I am not suggesting we should be.
3: You seem to be misconstruing or exaggaterating the situation that was the catalyst for this discussion.

I bet people in North Korea sometimes don't realize they're in NORTH KOREA. Hence South Korea's odd practice of broadcasting news and kpop at the NK-SK border. Some of us know more than you, I wouldn't do this for no reason (not being a overdramatic teenager anymore).

QuoteMaybe those are the people who are likely to try to/want to become mods? Maybe there are different ways of judging candidates than purely demographics? People tend to support order instead of anarchy? Ask Jamaha? I don't know, I'm not in charge and don't have behind the scenes knowledge into what goes into mod selection process?

Oh, but some of us do. I don't think Jamaha is aware of some of this stuff, it's the same way people shouldn't vote for misogynist or anti-gay idiots in office, they're never going to be fair and their priorities are going to be skewed. Jamaha is busy. Understand that? It seems like bothering someone when they're busy makes them feel like they'd do anything to get you to go away. That's how I ended up buying Saria sushi because "she wants it."

If your definition of order is a week ban for a warning (+silencing discussions) and 3 of the mods splintering off to make their own decisions because of what ONE thinks, then maybe you really do deserve to live in North Korea.

Quote from: Altissimo on March 27, 2016, 05:00:29 AMNobody should "try" to become a mod. Ever. If someone wants to be a mod they are not worthy of being a mod, period at the end.

edit: also i really dont see why we're not allowed to publicly air issues with mods, many other places i've been at welcome that kind of discussion, it seems rather "North Korea"-esque as Ruto would have it to automatically stifle complaints...

Loool +1

I seem to be missing a piece of my ear.

Altissimo

unfortunately, as much as ruto and I have been talking and trying to get in touch wih Jamaha, it's not actually worked so far and it's been a couple weeks. So the only thing left at this point is to address our concerns with the community as a whole. This has been a while in the making.