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[NDS] Kirby: Canvas Curse - "Drawcia Sorceress" by LeviR.star

Started by Zeta, February 04, 2020, 05:22:02 PM

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Zeta

Submission Information:

Series: Kirby
Game: Kirby: Canvas Curse
Console: Nintendo DS
Title: Drawcia Sorceress
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: LeviR.star

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LeviR.star

Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

mastersuperfan

Oh boy, remember this and this? This looks like another one of those tracks that I've always heard in a totally different time signature from everyone else...

warning: potentially controversial
[close]

I can personally only understand this track in 12/8 for maybe the first two measures, and then after that I am mentally unable to hear it in any way other the way I posted above. Take it or leave it, I suppose (but more opinions are always welcome).
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 11, 2016, 03:00:36 PMthere's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
Quote from: Latios212 on February 11, 2016, 03:29:24 PMThe difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

Latios212

Oh boy yeah this is another one of those pieces ^^

For what it's worth, I agree with MSF that I hear this in quarters rather than dotted quarters, with m. 2 and similar being syncopated against that rhythm. Looking at what you have written right now, it also seems like that would make the most sense given the stress of the left hand part.

Like MSF, though, that's just how I hear it. Thoughts from others?

One thing I'd suggest at least considering as a compromise for this piece is changing the time signature to 6/4 and beaming each group of 6 eighth notes together, sort of implying that there isn't a super clear stress pattern within each phrase. See [this sheet] as an example of what I'm thinking of. (original)
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

Spoiler
[close]
turtle

Dekkadeci

Huh, I actually hear this piece in 6/8 time except when the hemiola kicks in at the start of the loop. That's when I wouldn't be averse to a time signature change to 3/4.

In Bars 10-12, 14-16, 26-28, and 30-32, I still tend to hear the middle-voice single-8th-note runs (i.e. not the ones notated with two or more notes on one stem) one octave higher than what you have notated.

In the looped portion, I'm hearing a more active left-hand accompaniment than what you have notated right now, with 16th notes in places. I think notating those with broken-octave single 16th notes instead of repeated octave spans is fine. You have the left-hand accompaniment note pitches correct, though.

LeviR.star

Hoo boy... looks like I've got a lot to think over~

Quote from: mastersuperfan on February 04, 2020, 07:03:33 PMI can personally only understand this track in 12/8 for maybe the first two measures, and then after that I am mentally unable to hear it in any way other the way I posted above.

Do you mean for the first measure? Because while I'm open to changing the sheet to 3/4, I wouldn't see any problem with keeping m. 1 as 12/8.

Quote from: Latios212 on February 04, 2020, 07:33:49 PMOne thing I'd suggest at least considering as a compromise for this piece is changing the time signature to 6/4 and beaming each group of 6 eighth notes together, sort of implying that there isn't a super clear stress pattern within each phrase. See [this sheet] as an example of what I'm thinking of. (original)

I don't think we should have to compromise. 3/4, 6/8, 6/4 -- I'm fine with changing the meter to whatever you guys can agree on working the best for this. As long as we don't start a war over it.

Quote from: Dekkadeci on February 05, 2020, 09:52:27 PMIn Bars 10-12, 14-16, 26-28, and 30-32, I still tend to hear the middle-voice single-8th-note runs (i.e. not the ones notated with two or more notes on one stem) one octave higher than what you have notated.

I know you're trying to help, Dekka, but I'd appreciate it if you stopped insinuating that every inaccuracy in my Kirby sheets is a transcription error, because these sheets are not transcriptions. That voice stationed an octave lower was moved to keep it below the soprano line, and was part of a completely conscious decision. Good ear, though.

Quote from: Dekkadeci on February 05, 2020, 09:52:27 PMIn the looped portion, I'm hearing a more active left-hand accompaniment than what you have notated right now, with 16th notes in places. I think notating those with broken-octave single 16th notes instead of repeated octave spans is fine. You have the left-hand accompaniment note pitches correct, though.

I hear what you're hearing, but I'm not sure it's worth inserting into the left hand part. Those rhythms are there, but they're only slightly audible in the original, and I'm doubtful that the LH texture has to be any thicker than it already is in that section. Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'll keep the LH how it is, if you don't mind. Unless everyone else objects to me leaving it out, that is.

Here's a question: should I start the con pedale on m. 2 to make sure the performer doesn't add any unnecessary reverb to the intro? What articulations would work best for m. 1?

I'll let you guys talk this over before I make any drastic changes.
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

mastersuperfan

Quote from: LeviR.star on February 05, 2020, 11:26:11 PMDo you mean for the first measure? Because while I'm open to changing the sheet to 3/4, I wouldn't see any problem with keeping m. 1 as 12/8.

Oops I actually meant m2-3, before the other parts come in and start adding context. I can't really hear m1 as a distinctive 12/8 either, so if you're willing to change the time sig from m2 onward to 3/4, I figure you might as well make m1 3/4 too, for consistency's sake?
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 11, 2016, 03:00:36 PMthere's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
Quote from: Latios212 on February 11, 2016, 03:29:24 PMThe difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

LeviR.star

Ok, I went in expecting it to look fine in 3/4. MSF's screenshot looks great, but I had second thoughts when I saw this beaming:

You cannot view this attachment.

Yikes... so now I'm switching it to 6/8 until we can all agree on something, because the patterns I'm seeing (especially the constant dotted quarters) really seem to suggest a compound time feel. Oh, and I also flipped some of the ties before the repeat downwards.

Here's to hoping I didn't just start a war ~
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

Latios212

For those parts with dotted quarters I think it would be okay to beam them like 6/8 even though the time signature is 3/4 to indicate the syncopated rhythm. It makes sense in quarters mostly everywhere but these places.
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

Spoiler
[close]
turtle

LeviR.star

Quote from: Latios212 on February 17, 2020, 06:48:06 PMFor those parts with dotted quarters I think it would be okay to beam them like 6/8 even though the time signature is 3/4 to indicate the syncopated rhythm. It makes sense in quarters mostly everywhere but these places.

If I'm being honest, I don't see any reason to beam them like 6/8 if the whole song's going to be in simple meter. That'd be way too confusing for a performer to read, and a little pointless.

Everything here implies a compound feel:

- the two bar intro
- the recurring trio-of-8ths rhythms
- dotted quarter pairs everywhere
- the general contour of the counterpoint
- my college theory professor agrees

The only exceptions to this are the bass rhythm in the repeated section and hemiola at m. 25 - 26 / 57 - 58; I think they're here to add more drive to the song and invoke some interest out of the listener's ear.

With all due respect, I'm keeping this as 6/8, and I don't want any more debating over it until all other aspects of this sheet are checked.
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

Latios212

Quote from: LeviR.star on February 05, 2020, 11:26:11 PMI don't think we should have to compromise. 3/4, 6/8, 6/4 -- I'm fine with changing the meter to whatever you guys can agree on working the best for this. As long as we don't start a war over it.
Quote from: LeviR.star on February 17, 2020, 05:56:10 PMHere's to hoping I didn't just start a war ~
Quote from: LeviR.star on February 18, 2020, 08:19:38 AMWith all due respect, I'm keeping this as 6/8, and I don't want any more debating over it until all other aspects of this sheet are checked.
Levi, you're the only one acting even remotely hostile here. Please stop treating everything as an argument.

It's fine to say "this is what makes the most sense to me and I would prefer to keep it" but trying to shut down any earnest discussion is unhealthy.
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

Spoiler
[close]
turtle

Latios212

Checking the rest of the sheet. Looks really good!
- m. 4 you could easily include the D# on beat 4 using the LH if you want.
- m. 35 needs "a tempo".

Aside from that, still looking for other updaters to comment on the time signature.
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

Spoiler
[close]
turtle

LeviR.star

Quote from: Latios212 on March 17, 2020, 04:51:40 PM- m. 4 you could easily include the D# on beat 4 using the LH if you want.
- m. 35 needs "a tempo".

- I'll put it there in parentheses, break the beam, and label it "L.H."
- can't fit that between the staves, so I'll put it up on top

Files fixed ~
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

mastersuperfan

- The tempo is dotted quarter = 89 (instead of 88) at m3, and then it actually increases to dotted quarter = 100 at m35.
- I wonder if the dotted quarter rests in m24/32 LH Layer 2 would look better if moved down onto the staff.
- Any particular reason why the RH isn't doubled to fill the Layer 2 eighth rests in m19/21/23/etc.? The lack of a continuous line (with seconds being replaced by ninths) makes those parts of the sheet sound a bit strange to me.

That's all I'm seeing at the moment. I'll offer up some further thoughts regarding the time signature once everything else looks good and one or two others give their opinions.
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 11, 2016, 03:00:36 PMthere's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
Quote from: Latios212 on February 11, 2016, 03:29:24 PMThe difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

LeviR.star

Quote from: mastersuperfan on March 21, 2020, 02:16:30 PM- The tempo is dotted quarter = 89 (instead of 88) at m3, and then it actually increases to dotted quarter = 100 at m35.
- I wonder if the dotted quarter rests in m24/32 LH Layer 2 would look better if moved down onto the staff.
- Any particular reason why the RH isn't doubled to fill the Layer 2 eighth rests in m19/21/23/etc.? The lack of a continuous line (with seconds being replaced by ninths) makes those parts of the sheet sound a bit strange to me.

- good catch. Consider it done
- I think they look better moved down, too
- I figured at first it would be kind of a quick jump for the RH, but if people here think it's playable, I have no problem with changing it

Also, I just realized now why I didn't do this the first time:

Quote from: Latios212 on March 17, 2020, 04:51:40 PM- m. 4 you could easily include the D# on beat 4 using the LH if you want.

With the LH being more active in the similar m. 36, and too busy to hit the D4, I opted out of including it altogether. Thoughts? Files are updated, btw.
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements