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Author Topic: Zeila's Replacements  (Read 4355 times)

mastersuperfan

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2020, 07:30:43 PM »

The only G I'm hearing is from another layer/voice that plays G-D-G-D. Listening to it again I hear the middle note as F but in a higher octave. I ended up adding D's to the chords in the RH of measure 45 and G's in measure 46

I admit I'm finding it pretty hard to work out exactly what's going on in bar 45, but what you've written in there just sounds out of place to me compared to in 46-47 where it's fairly consistent.  The general pattern (low high low) with not too large an interval sounds like it should still be going on in 45, if you understand what I mean.  Particularly the F-F-F octave jump in the second half of the bar sounds especially off to me.  Maybe we could get another opinion if necessary.

This is what I hear for m45 (transposed down to be in the same octave as the notes in m46-47):


It's hard for me to hear where the F's come from, let alone the octave jump, so I personally wouldn't recommend that. These notes in m45 that I wrote above come from the same voice that plays what you've written for Layer 2 in m46-47, so I would be consistent here and transcribe the same voice for m45 too.

For the arrangement, I would just write it like the way I put above, except I would turn m45 beat 1.5 (the low G) into a D so that the RH doesn't restrike the LH G right away, and so that Layer 2 sounds more consistent.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 07:32:42 PM by mastersuperfan »
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there's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
The difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

Zeila

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2020, 03:19:05 PM »

This is what I hear for m45 (transposed down to be in the same octave as the notes in m46-47):


It's hard for me to hear where the F's come from, let alone the octave jump, so I personally wouldn't recommend that. These notes in m45 that I wrote above come from the same voice that plays what you've written for Layer 2 in m46-47, so I would be consistent here and transcribe the same voice for m45 too.

For the arrangement, I would just write it like the way I put above, except I would turn m45 beat 1.5 (the low G) into a D so that the RH doesn't restrike the LH G right away, and so that Layer 2 sounds more consistent.
I guess our ears are just different then since (I thought) I transcribed m45-48 from the same voice, and again I only really hear any G in the second half of m45 from the voice that goes G-D two octaves higher. Since two people think it's off though I'll change it, and it makes sense. I wrote your suggestion for the first two beats of m45, but I kept the F's in the second half instead of D's since that will start the descending pattern that Libera mentioned

Thanks for your input!
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Libera

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2020, 03:57:34 PM »

I guess our ears are just different then since (I thought) I transcribed m45-48 from the same voice, and again I only really hear any G in the second half of m45 from the voice that goes G-D two octaves higher. Since two people think it's off though I'll change it, and it makes sense. I wrote your suggestion for the first two beats of m45, but I kept the F's in the second half instead of D's since that will start the descending pattern that Libera mentioned

Thanks for your input!

That works for me so I'll accept!

Libera

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2020, 10:11:03 PM »

Brinstar

I remember this piece well from playing SSBM back in the day haha, nice sheet generally.

-I'd write the guitar slide thing in bar 4 the same way as in the previous two bars to be more consistent.  I don't think they sound very different personally.
-The last note in bar 41 sounds like an A rather than a G to me.
-I'm not sure about the F in the final chord of 15 (and everywhere else this figure shows up).  It sounds like the only note that changes is the B -> C to me.
-I think it'd be less confusing to write the right hand in bars 47-53 in one layer rather than two.  I'm not sure you gain anything out of writing it in two layers and it looks more cluttered and confusing to read.
-Be careful with your rests in 12/8.  The crotchet rest in bar 8 should be two quavers rests.  Same for bar 62 (and potentially others I've missed).
-It's kind of hard to hear because it's so low, but it sounds like the bass note at the end of bars 91 and 95 is an F rather than a G.
-You could cue in the drums in the first bar, rather than starting on bar 2.  It might be less deceptive that way, but it's not super necessary.
-The way the top line gets hidden in bars 41-42 isn't ideal.  I think it wouldn't be too bad to put the little resolution an octave lower, even if that means some hand crossings.  But I haven't actually tried it out so I'm not sure how awkward it is.
-I think the key signature should be in G major.  It definitely feels more like the tonal centre is G major with some modal stuff or whatever over the top.

Zeila

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2020, 11:07:57 PM »

Brinstar

I remember this piece well from playing SSBM back in the day haha, nice sheet generally.
Thanks!

-I'd write the guitar slide thing in bar 4 the same way as in the previous two bars to be more consistent.  I don't think they sound very different personally.
The last one sounds a bit more delayed in my opinion. Maybe someone else can chime in

-The last note in bar 41 sounds like an A rather than a G to me.
-It's kind of hard to hear because it's so low, but it sounds like the bass note at the end of bars 91 and 95 is an F rather than a G.
I don't hear these two. Maybe someone else will feel differently?

-I'm not sure about the F in the final chord of 15 (and everywhere else this figure shows up).  It sounds like the only note that changes is the B -> C to me.
I personally still hear an F in measures 7 and 61, but you're right about 15/69

-You could cue in the drums in the first bar, rather than starting on bar 2.  It might be less deceptive that way, but it's not super necessary.
I'd rather not personally because of spacing

-I think it'd be less confusing to write the right hand in bars 47-53 in one layer rather than two.  I'm not sure you gain anything out of writing it in two layers and it looks more cluttered and confusing to read.
-Be careful with your rests in 12/8.  The crotchet rest in bar 8 should be two quavers rests.  Same for bar 62 (and potentially others I've missed).
-The way the top line gets hidden in bars 41-42 isn't ideal.  I think it wouldn't be too bad to put the little resolution an octave lower, even if that means some hand crossings.  But I haven't actually tried it out so I'm not sure how awkward it is.
-I think the key signature should be in G major.  It definitely feels more like the tonal centre is G major with some modal stuff or whatever over the top.
Done, thanks!
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Maelstrom

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2020, 11:35:56 PM »

Fountain of Dreams
-m2 - I think the Ab-A-Bb progression here is the most important part and should be the lowest note in the LH. Currently, the inversion obscures that motion. 
-m2 LH - I'm not sure what the G is doing there. The lowest note should be a Bn to show the progression.
-I don't hear the scale in m3?
-RH m4-7. Not a fan of the chords. I hear something more like this:

-m7 - Any reason the 16th run here is in 16ths and not grace notes? It prevents the F chord from coming in on b4 which would add quite a bit of flavor and, I would argue, is much more important.
-m7 LH- b4 is an F. A case could be made to argue for a Bb here and it would certainly be more playable.
-I'm not positive LH m8-9, 12-13 etc are actually that different from m4-5. Notating it the same way would make it feel less empty. At the very least, 12-13 onward is pretty much identical to 4-5.
-m17 RH - I hear the strings chords here on the offbeat of every beat of the measure
-m22 RH - the A and G on b1 and 3 are held. I'd recommend either making them tied/2nd layer half note, or restriking them in the next chord.
-m28-31 LH - there's offbeat strings here that would be very good to include. You chose to include those only in 36-39 which I don't feel works either. I'd recommend a mixture to be used consistently in both places.

Libera

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2020, 12:46:09 AM »

Re: Brinstar

Sorry for taking so long to respond.  The changes look great.  And I had another listen and agree with you about those two discrepancies and so I'm happy to accept now.  Good work!  (I've fixed the articulations, but let me know if anything looks off.)

Maelstrom

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2020, 11:20:16 PM »

Full Force
Is force not capitalized?
m8 b3 RH - I hear the E restrike
m10 - isn't that supposed an inverted mordent or whatever it's called? It goes the other direction.
m46 RH - I hear the first note of hte triplets as an E.
LH:
m3 - I don't hear the restrike you have here on b4.
m7 - beat 3.5 is a C.
It's hard to make out, but I hear Bbs on b4 of m5 and 9.
m25-m41 - I don't hear any restrikes on b1.5 of any of these measures
m41 - b2.5 is an A.
m42 - I hear b1 as a C tied from m41 and b1.5 as the D.
Can't seem to tell why m47-48 is written differently than 43-44
m52 - first 3 notes are tied, b3.5-4 as well.
m55-56 is the same as m43-44 as well.
The first 2 8ths are tied (meaning a quarter) on every odd measure from 41-end. So like m43, 45, etc

I realize I have a lot of combining notes which might take away from the driving force of the song. However, variation is important, and, most importantly, it makes the already difficult song more playable. Repeated 8ths at q=220 is brutal. I really like how you made this work on piano as a whole, the playability is my largest concern now.

legoenthusiast

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2020, 05:03:33 PM »

(technically "Full force" according to vgmdb, although a 2008 album has "Full force!" instead): original

Maelstrom

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2020, 09:18:29 PM »

Cool, good to know

Zeila

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2020, 01:01:44 PM »

Fountain of Dreams

-m2 - I think the Ab-A-Bb progression here is the most important part and should be the lowest note in the LH. Currently, the inversion obscures that motion.
There is a G and I lowered it to make it less dense sounding, but you're right that it was too drastic of a change. Anyways I raised it up an octave and lowered the Bn to be the lowest to fit with the bassline

-I don't hear the scale in m3?
That was just some random thing to try and imitate the wind chimes in order to have something there

-RH m4-7. Not a fan of the chords. I hear something more like this:
https://i.fiery.me/Oh1S7.jpg
I listened to it again and I disagree. If anything, the only difference is that I don't hear any E in measures 6-7 while the F is in both 6 and 7 instead of just 7. And while this may not hold much if any weight since it is technically from a different game, it sounds clearer in the Kirby Air Ride version (and it's consistent enough for other versions of the song too, but this one is closer to the original than say the Nightmare in Dream Land one)

-m7 - Any reason the 16th run here is in 16ths and not grace notes? It prevents the F chord from coming in on b4 which would add quite a bit of flavor and, I would argue, is much more important.
Not any strong one, it's been updated

-m7 LH- b4 is an F. A case could be made to argue for a Bb here and it would certainly be more playable.
I still hear a G, although if you feel strongly about using Bb instead then I will change it. Currently, I left it alone

-m17 RH - I hear the strings chords here on the offbeat of every beat of the measure
Are you talking about measure 17? Because I genuinely don't know what you're talking about, and if you meant the LH for measure 18 then technically there are chords playing eighths throughout, but I just highlighted the brass. Or are you suggesting that I add offbeat string chords to measure 17 for the RH (And if that's the case, why not m9/13/etc?)

-m22 RH - the A and G on b1 and 3 are held. I'd recommend either making them tied/2nd layer half note, or restriking them in the next chord.
I will just restrike them

-m28-31 LH - there's offbeat strings here that would be very good to include. You chose to include those only in 36-39 which I don't feel works either. I'd recommend a mixture to be used consistently in both places.
I'm not sure if this is any better because it may seem a little too crowded and using just one part provided a nice contrast (imo ofc) between the heavier sections, but I tried to combine both. I did the same for m36 up to beat 3 of m38, and I changed the G on beat 4 to F because it was wrong

-m2 - I think the Ab-A-Bb progression here is the most important part and should be the lowest note in the LH. Currently, the inversion obscures that motion.
-I'm not positive LH m8-9, 12-13 etc are actually that different from m4-5. Notating it the same way would make it feel less empty. At the very least, 12-13 onward is pretty much identical to 4-5.
Changed


Full Force

m46 RH - I hear the first note of hte triplets as an E.
While I do hear an E, that sounds like it's coming from another voice line that goes E-D-C and not from the melody itself

LH:
m7 - beat 3.5 is a C.
I don't hear it, and it seems to go against the other changes like in m3, 4, and 8

Can't seem to tell why m47-48 is written differently than 43-44
m55-56 is the same as m43-44 as well.
The other voiceline that I used for m41-42 and other spots does a bunch of fast sixteenth notes in m43-44/m53-54 so I kept the original bassline there, but in m47-48 it goes B then G so I changed the main note in order to provide variety (and in m55-56 it goes B then E). Also in m54 I decided to change beat 4 to be what the countermelody plays (B-C) instead of what the bassline plays

I realize I have a lot of combining notes which might take away from the driving force of the song. However, variation is important, and, most importantly, it makes the already difficult song more playable. Repeated 8ths at q=220 is brutal. I really like how you made this work on piano as a whole, the playability is my largest concern now.
That's totally fair, and thank you! The stuff you mentioned is both more accurate and easier to play, so I consider that to be two wins since it does not detract from the overall drive and sound much if at all anyways

m8 b3 RH - I hear the E restrike
m10 - isn't that supposed an inverted mordent or whatever it's called? It goes the other direction.
m3 LH - I don't hear the restrike you have here on b4.
It's hard to make out, but I hear Bbs on b4 of m5 and 9.
m25-m41 - I don't hear any restrikes on b1.5 of any of these measures
m41 - b2.5 is an A.
m42 - I hear b1 as a C tied from m41 and b1.5 as the D.
m52 - first 3 notes are tied, b3.5-4 as well.
The first 2 8ths are tied (meaning a quarter) on every odd measure from 41-end. So like m43, 45, etc
Done, although it's possible I misunderstood what you meant for m52 (i.e. beat 3-4 looks like tied eighth-quarter-eighth, but maybe you meant tied eighth-dotted quarter)

Anyways, thank you for the feedback and sorry for not clarifying more stuff initially!


Re: Brinstar

Sorry for taking so long to respond.  The changes look great.  And I had another listen and agree with you about those two discrepancies and so I'm happy to accept now.  Good work!  (I've fixed the articulations, but let me know if anything looks off.)
It's alright, and the articulations look fine to me. Thanks!
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Maelstrom

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2020, 08:35:21 PM »

Fountain of dreams
-After listening to the other versions and going back to the melee one, I think I can hear the m4-7 chords as you have them now.
-I still think b4 of m7 is an F, but we can let the next updater chime in if you'd like.
-m17 yes I meant m18 oops. I'm fine with emphasizing the brass here.
The rest looks great, nice work
Approved

Full force
Wait, if the alternate title "Full force!" is what you're going with, why isn't there an exclamation mark?
-m46 RH - Yep, I hear it now.
-not sure what I was hearing in m7 now that I listen again....
-last page bassline - Ah, I hear it now. Sounds cool.
misc. stuff:
-8th note beaming in 2nd layer m23-24 isn't consistent with the way you beamed the rest of the song, including the LH in 23.
-Break the b3.5/b4 LH beam in m51.

Fix this and I'll approve. Alternatively, I can just make the changes for you if you want.

edit: talked with zeila on discord, edited, and approved.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 09:00:50 PM by Maelstrom »
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Maelstrom

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2020, 11:10:06 PM »

Flat Zone
for m29-31 and only those measures, I hear this in the bassline:


That's all, nice work on this insane song

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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2020, 12:20:15 AM »

I agree with this. The beat 1.25 will have to be omitted in 29 though as that's currently written down as an eighth note jump down to the 8vb part.
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Re: Zeila's Replacements
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2020, 12:42:56 AM »

Sounds cool
accepted
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