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Started by Yugi, July 03, 2013, 08:59:31 PM

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Mashi

you conservatives isolating me from you other musicians just because i play the nail on the chalkboard!!!  >:(

when will this discrimination end???



Anyway, Clanker37, although I can understand your perspective, I have to concur with the majority that the guitar is an instrument!  The guitar has had a bad reputation since its inception, having been considered a 'bar instrument' that was, evidently, played solely in bars.  But doesn't change that it is a legitimate musical instrument.

Looking up the term in Oxford English Dictionary:
"an object or device for producing musical sounds."

And by this logic, a guitar is as much of an instrument as a flute or synthesiser is.  Perhaps the idea of 'musical sounds' may be subjective, but I think Olimar12345's audible art approach is probably the best definition of what music is; it's what you make of it and so nearly anything can be considered a musical instrument in that regard.  We could have the spoon on the glass cup, the sonar waves reflecting back from the ocean floor with an audible frequency, the textbooks falling from the desk!  Possibilities are endless!!!

Ruto

It's funny how Mashi uses the dictionary to settle arguments.

I seem to be missing a piece of my ear.

Mashi

According to the Princeton Wordnet Dictionary:

"mashi
a Bantu language"

its in my blood

SuperFireKirby

Quote from: Clanker37 on December 18, 2013, 04:51:21 AMYes, but I'm afraid guitars are far to wide-spread and common that their sound has past their used-by-date, hence why they're not a musical instrument.

Do I really need to add, "imo"?
Using this logic, piano doesn't require skill either and isn't a real instrument. And maybe let's throw in any kind of percussive sound just for fun. So never play any of those stupid things again.

Quote from: Mashi on March 26, 2013, 05:54:37 PMAfter viewing both FMA:Brotherhood and Naruto Shippuden, it would be frivolous to even consider watching an anime as unbearably mediocre as Melancholy. NARUTOxHINATA 4 LYFE!!!

The Deku Trombonist


Zunawe

Guitar is a very nice instrument when handled well, and always has been. It is an instrument. Probably one of the first conceived. However, a stereotype of guitarists has emerged, as in every other type of instrument, where the player seems egotistical or something along those lines. We have guitar classes at my school, and few things are more annoying when walking the halls as finding some other guy obtrusively playing the same 8 chords or boring ostinato. Guitars aren't bad. People who play guitar to be "cool" are annoying.
You know you've been playing too much Dragon Quest when you're afraid your Hershey's Kisses are going to flee.

I program things

Clanker37

But it's nauseating. When ever someone plucks a guitar I cannot stand it. It drives me insane that the majority of people live and breath such a revolting, disgraceful, vomit-inducing sound. So, in order to voice my dis-contempt, I consider it not an instrument, so that people understand the severity of my hatred.

KefkaticFanatic

I guess some instruments have that effect on people.  Like how I feel about bagpipes, otherwise known as the Voice of the Devil.



me irl
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MasterProX

I never understood why so many people hate the bagpipes. They sound fine to me.

Olimar12345

Well, for one thing, to function they have to be extremely loud.
Visit my site: VGM Sheet Music by Olimar12345 ~ Quality VGM sheet music available for free!

FierceDeity

Quote from: Clanker37 on December 18, 2013, 11:42:53 PMBut it's nauseating. When ever someone plucks a guitar I cannot stand it. It drives me insane that the majority of people live and breath such a revolting, disgraceful, vomit-inducing sound. So, in order to voice my dis-contempt, I consider it not an instrument, so that people understand the severity of my hatred.

But...I honestly just want to know at this point where this hate comes from. Provide some examples of pieces where guitar is so awful to you. Because unless you somehow have a VERY SPECIFIC form of amusia, it seems to me that it comes from the fact that you've generated a stereotype in your head (based at least partially on your frustration with the people who do receive praise without having any talent) and have conformed all guitar music to that stereotype. Because, as I've said, guitar is an EXTREMELY versatile instrument. There are so ridiculously many varieties of timbre that you can achieve with different forms of guitars, different styles of playing, etc., that I truly doubt that your hatred for guitar comes from a specific amusia concerning the specific patterns of overtones present in ALL of those variations.

Also, dis-contempt is not a word :P If it were, it would mean either a lack of contempt (i.e. lack of hatred), or the opposite of contempt. The word you are looking for is "discontent", haha

Quote from: KefkaticFanatic on December 18, 2013, 11:59:09 PMI guess some instruments have that effect on people.  Like how I feel about bagpipes, otherwise known as the Voice of the Devil.

I honestly kinda like bagpipes (in certain cases), but they do have a reallllly specific function in comparison, and a very limited variety of sounds. Plus, it's very rarely used outside of niche music, so that's kind of understandable. I think of it the way that I think of quarter tone music; it's more of a specific cultural thing, which, if you grow up without constant exposure to such a different approach to music, it's more difficult to appreciate.

Clanker37

Quote from: FierceDeity on December 19, 2013, 02:19:38 AMBut...I honestly just want to know at this point where this hate comes from. Provide some examples of pieces where guitar is so awful to you. Because unless you somehow have a VERY SPECIFIC form of amusia, it seems to me that it comes from the fact that you've generated a stereotype in your head (based at least partially on your frustration with the people who do receive praise without having any talent) and have conformed all guitar music to that stereotype. Because, as I've said, guitar is an EXTREMELY versatile instrument. There are so ridiculously many varieties of timbre that you can achieve with different forms of guitars, different styles of playing, etc., that I truly doubt that your hatred for guitar comes from a specific amusia concerning the specific patterns of overtones present in ALL of those variations.
I think it comes from being inflicted with music that I'm expected to like. My sister and family always put on the popular music of the day and of course it featured the guitar. I hated it. Not only had I created a stereotype where any male who liked music was clearly gay (and gay equaled bad. Well that worked out >_>), but also I resented the fact that I was expected to like their music. For a long time I didn't have a favorite taste nor listened to music. Then of course I discovered VG music on the internet as well as instrumental music and fell in love. Of course I'd share my music with them, but they would say they hated it. They still do. IDC.

So at one point of course they asked why I disliked their music. I couldn't justify my hated of it. I remembered my mum once (jokingly) calling a guitar not an instrument. So I took that and it manifested into what it is today. Of course the fact that most guitarists are obnoxious arseholes solidifies my disgust for the instrument.

That's my theory anyway.

BTW the bagpipes are awesome lol

Jompa

Lets just go throught this nice and punct-wise: (I am gonna mis-spell "require" soo much...)

A guitar is a musical instrument, because a musical instrument is defined as "a device that makes musical sounds". Music is defined as "organized sound", so a guitar is most definately a musical instrument.

It is ok to have your own opinions, but to say that a guitar isn't a musical instrument is wrong any way you look at it.

Saying that an instrument needs to requier skill to be an instrument is not correct either, and most importantly; saying that playing the guitar doesn't requeri skill shows that you think too narrowmindedly about it. I guess you're thinking about how you can just pick up a guitar and play just as nice as all the lame singer-songwriters can, but you know what - I can guaratee you that you are just really inexperienced with the world of the guitar:
I take guitar as my "chords"-subject, and eventhough I've been playing the guitar for years, I had never heard about the "jazz-chords" (it's probably something else in english), which is a jazz guitar term for the "universal" ways of gripping specific strings 'n stuff for each root, and also ways of seeing how it's all connected in the laws of harmony 'n shit - that's hard! (no don't think you can imagine how hard it is). That's not just "gripping a chord and strumming", it's much wilder than that.

When you say that every one who plays the guitar doesn't have any skill, I assume you're talking about simple chords that everyone learned in like 8th grade that only requers strumming. Too bad Dusk's composition-links no longer work, or else you could've seen for yourself how there is a bigger world to the guitar-music than that (I'm too lazy to search up something...).

My point is this: You do requer skill to play that amazing rock solo, those rapidly changing jazz chords, that melody-at-the-same-time-as-the-chords-thing, and that technique-show-off classical piece. I know you can't do it, obviously.

You're saying that the guitar sounds bad, but you also only say that when "someone" plays it - and yes, those un-musical people who only like the guitar because it's a fascinating soundmaschine for them, yes they can't play the guitar, and whatever they do on it is horrible, but THAT IS THE CASE WITH ANY INSTRUMENT. It's just that not flippin' everyone has a violin or a saxophone or a piano lying around in the attic, so we're spared from hearing those instruments being raped all the time, but it would be just as bad if you gave an un-musical eight grader a trumpet.

But if you can play the guitar it's great!
Having an acoustic guitar playing an eight bar solo-melody in a big band bossa nova piece (just a random example), that would be really nice, if the melody was nice, and if it was played correctly (like with every other instrument ever).

A "guitar" is one of the most universal instruments there are.
As a chord playing instrument it is one of the most used, and one of the most ideal instruments to do so - piano is obviously superior(imo!), but what else is there besides that? not much. accordion perhaps...
As a solo instrument used in classical music, it requiers skill in most cases, and can be quite beautiful to listen to - I went to a classical guitar concert today at my school, and it was very good!

There are a lot of bad guitar players in the world (definately more of those than bad harp players), but the instrument is like every other instrument.
Lets trust my ethos for a sec (as I play both the guitar and the saxophone (among others)); I can tell you that there are some things that are way way way harder to do on the guitar than on the sax - I'm mainly referring to the consciousness of which note is where (a lot of strings you know) - can you really play any melody right off the sheet when it comes to the guitar? 'Cause guitarists sure can't (in most cases) - of course, jazz and classical guitarists (that are good) can to some degree, but there is ALWAYS a clear limit to it (which I'm gonna admit that there almost isn't on the sax).
So skill is required if you are gonna be a good guitarist.

And sorry if I was being mean saying that Clanker was insane, I was merely trying to express my reaction through a slightly humorous/drastic way of speaking.

----------------
Most recordings I've heard of bagpipes (when playing together) are so out of tune that it's crazy anyone would ever wan't to play or listen too it.
But there is a bagpipeist at my school (it's a music high school), and when he's playing it's great.
Birdo for Smash

Clanker37

Jompa... ;_;

OK, OK, OK I submit. I suppose a guitar played by a true musician with a catchy rhythm and marvelous melody could, maybe, possibly, be an scrape the title of musical instrument. I still don't like it, but I could learn to live with it. Maybe.

Also, don't apologize for calling me insane. I'm glad someone finally noticed. (If you knew half the stuff that my brain comes up with...)

On a side-note though, why is it, that when I enter these discussions on NSM that I always end up agreeing with my opposition? It makes me feel weak.

Olimar12345

Well, in this instance you were fighting a losing battle xD
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