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Author Topic: [DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy  (Read 380 times)

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[DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy
« on: August 04, 2020, 10:26:22 PM »

Submission Information:

Series: Other
Game: Wacky Races
Console: Dreamcast
Title: Snow Hope Village
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: ShyYoshiGuy
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 06:24:07 PM by ShyYoshiGuy »
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Re: [DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2020, 10:35:01 PM »

Welcome to the next round of the Snowfall Peaks Wacky Cup Challenge!

Once again, while Glacier Lake indeed uses this theme, Snow Hope Village is the first track on the sign post to use it.

https://youtu.be/-34vwUtMTTM

I tried to use feedback from Snow La Coasta on this sheet, mostly using articulations and dynamics. I may have went a little overboard with them though, heh. I don't have much experience with accents/staccatos, and I still don't fully understand how crescendos work.
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Re: [DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2020, 03:58:36 AM »

I tried to use feedback from Snow La Coasta on this sheet, mostly using articulations and dynamics. I may have went a little overboard with them though, heh. I don't have much experience with accents/staccatos, and I still don't fully understand how crescendos work.
It's good that you kept it in mind! However, now there are way too many accents; instead, they should be used sparingly. Having an accent on beat 1 of every measure from m1-10 and m51-62 is excessive, especially given that downbeats are always accented naturally. Having accents on every LH note in m51-62 is excessive as well. However, the accents in m15-29 are more appropriate since those notes are played in a very strong, punchy fashion in the original.

You should also avoid using staccatos on dotted notes or tied notes most of the time, since dots/ties and staccatos have opposing effects and look strange together on paper. For example, the second half of m9/40 would be better written as (staccato'd 8th note) - (16th rest) - (16th note without staccato) - (8th rest) - (staccato'd 8th note), instead of staccato'd dotted and tied notes. (m9 and m40 are also measures where you could add accents on ALL the RH notes, not just beats 1 and 3, since all of them are played strongly.)

Meanwhile, m51-62 would be a good place to add staccatos to the melody, since some notes are shorter and more bouncy than others. Listen carefully for those notes to figure out where the staccatos should go.

The main thing I have to say about this sheet is that you're missing a lot of harmonies in the RH. Often, there are multiple voices or chords in the original, whereas you only write one voice into the RH in most places. If you haven't already been using it or a similar too, I recommend using the AudioStretch app for iOS or Android to slow down the audio and listen more carefully to the notes. The full app costs money, but there's a free lite version for iOS.

Here are some of the places where there are extra harmonies (see if you can listen closely and pick them out yourself):
- In m4 (and m35), there are thirds above the melody in the RH, starting with F# above the D on beat 1.
- In m9 (and m40), the RH also plays the third of each chord, and the LH also plays the fifth of each chord. The first two beats should look like this:
Spoiler
[close]
- In m11-14, there are more notes under what you've written:
Spoiler
[close]
- In m15-29 RH, a lot of the bottom notes are inaccurate. In m16, they should be F and E (thirds) instead of C and C. In m17, it should be D instead of B. In m20-21, they should be D, E, and D (fourths) instead of C, C, and B.
- Continuing on in m23: In m23 I would advise adding another C to the bottom as well (same goes for m27). In m24, beats 3-4 are triads with D and F on the bottom, instead of C. m25 should also have an E between the C and G. m28-29 are all triads: m28 beat 3 and m29 should have an E between the C and G, and m28 beat 4 should have an F betwen the C and A.
- In m31, I would suggest doubling the RH an octave up; also, the offbeat 8th notes should all be lowered an octave (see image below.) This would also be a good measure to add accents on all notes in the RH.
Spoiler
[close]
- There's a lot more going on in m42-50 RH than what you've got. This is what's happening on m42-45 (also notice that the three-note pickup at the end of m45 is played by the RH too, not just the LH). See if you can hear all that and then fill in m46-50 in the same way.
Spoiler
[close]
- For m63-78, see what I said for m15-29. Also, I would raise the high piano line in m65-66/69-70/73-74/77-78 up one octave to match the original, even if you have to omit the first eighth note of the piano line on beat 1 for playability's sake.

I would also advise you to check the bassline carefully again, as there are some places where it's inaccurate. For example:
- In m4 (and m35), the LH should be lowered an octave, and it also has extra 8th notes that you're missing:
Spoiler
[close]
- In m5 (and m36), the LH line is the same as the RH eighth-note line, transposed down, instead of the quarter notes you have.
- In m6-8 (and m37-39), beats 2 (G) and 4 (F) should be transposed an octave down.
- The bassline in m23-30 is not the same as m15-22. (Likewise, the bassline in m71-78 is not the same either.)
- In m10 (and m41), the LH line is once again the same as the RH, except transposed down (i.e. eighth notes instead of half notes). Also, LH beats 3-4 are an octave lower than beats 1-2.
- The end of m45 and m49 LH don't sound staccato to me.
- m51-54 should all be lowered an octave. m52 should be an F instead of a D#. Also, there is a fifth above each note (i.e. m51 should be C and G, m52 should be F and C, etc.).
- Beats 1 and 3 of m56/60 should be lowered an octave. m57/61 has a different rhythm on beats 3-4 and should look like this:
Spoiler
[close]
- Beats 3-4 of m58/62 LH have eighth notes (C-G-A-B) instead of quarter notes
- I didn't check every measure on the bassline, so please please please go through the whole bassline again (raising the audio by an octave in a program like AudioStretch or Audacity can help) and carefully check/retranscribe all the notes accordingly.

Also, m55-62 should be written as a single four-measure phrase with a repeat sign and a note that says "Repeat 3 times," since all three four-measure phrases are identical.
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there's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
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Re: [DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2020, 03:16:31 PM »

Oof, caught me the day after I put my computer away, so my response isn’t gonna be so quick this time. Probably still within a week though, anyways. Thank you for the feedback, heh. I’m always shocked by how much there could possibly be, but to be fair I’ve just started this.

The main thing I have to say about this sheet is that you're missing a lot of harmonies in the RH. Often, there are multiple voices or chords in the original, whereas you only write one voice into the RH in most places. If you haven't already been using it or a similar too, I recommend using the AudioStretch app for iOS or Android to slow down the audio and listen more carefully to the notes. The full app costs money, but there's a free lite version for iOS.

Bought the full app a while ago, my sheets definitely wouldn’t have been possible without it, heh.

- In m15-29 RH, a lot of the bottom notes are inaccurate. In m16, they should be F and E (thirds) instead of C and C. In m17, it should be D instead of B. In m20-21, they should be D, E, and D (fourths) instead of C, C, and B.
...
- The bassline in m23-30 is not the same as m15-22. (Likewise, the bassline in m71-78 is not the same either.)
...
- I didn't check every measure on the bassline, so please please please go through the whole bassline again (raising the audio by an octave in a program like AudioStretch or Audacity can help) and carefully check/retranscribe all the notes accordingly.

One of those cases where I think it’s the same, copy/paste it, and not notice the difference in playback. Ok, I’ll check the bassline.

Also, m55-62 should be written as a single four-measure phrase with a repeat sign and a note that says "Repeat 3 times," since all three four-measure phrases are identical.

That’s allowed? Sweet. Is there a way to rig the MIDI up so it knows to read it thrice?



Edit 8/29/2020: No need for a bump, I’ve not forgotten about this. I addressed all the feedback except retranscribing the baseline. I hope to be done by when school starts Tuesday.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 06:57:37 PM by ShyYoshiGuy »
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Re: [DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2020, 03:16:42 AM »

Sorry for the long wait, eh. School's started and I've had a lot of things to do. A week turned into a month, lol. Anyways, ye cool, I went back to each note in the bassline and it seems to be good now. In editing other things, I may have screwed some things up, oof. I'll update my sheet shortly (tonight), you'll know it's the one if it has 9/17 in the title.

Edit: Oh yeah, and:
Also, m55-62 should be written as a single four-measure phrase with a repeat sign and a note that says "Repeat 3 times," since all three four-measure phrases are identical.
That’s allowed? Sweet. Is there a way to rig the MIDI up so it knows to read it thrice?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 03:24:34 AM by ShyYoshiGuy »
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Re: [DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2020, 04:50:30 AM »

Oh yeah, that. If you have full Finale, you should just be able to click on the repeat sign and select the option that says "play section 2 times," and then change the 2 to a 3.
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there's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
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Re: [DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2020, 03:23:32 PM »

Oh yeah, that. If you have full Finale, you should just be able to click on the repeat sign and select the option that says "play section 2 times," and then change the 2 to a 3.

Welp, I don’t have full Finale. I’m glad there’s the option though because the song would sound odd without the extra loop.
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Re: [DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2020, 08:36:50 PM »

Sorry for the long delay on getting back to you. This looks much improved! You have the wrong MUS file, though, so here's what I can offer for now based on the PDF before you upload the right MUS...

- You can add the marimba parts to the RH (i.e. like m11-14) in m18, m22, m26, and m30 since the RH isn't playing anything there.
- The accents are still way overdone. With the exception of m40, I don't think there should be ANY accents from m32-50. It's already implied that the first beat of every measure will be naturally accented; explicitly adding accents to every first beat is just introducing clutter.
- m40 is missing harmonies, and the F# should be Gb. In other words, it should look like m9.
- In m52 and m56, the last three sixteenth notes should all be beamed together. (Try highlighting the second-to-last note and pressing the slash key.)
- For m55-58, I think you could add notes to the LH such that it becomes a low-high-low-high-etc. alternating 8th-note rhythm (you can hear in the original that there are higher notes being played on the offbeats). Also, the bass is playing eighth notes in the second half of m58 (C-G-A-B).
- I would suggest unbeaming the first eighth note in m61/65/69/73 from the sixteenth note on beat 1.5 (again, highlight the sixteenth note and press slash). You can see that in m69/73 especially that it looks really awkward when they're beamed together over such a large interval.

There are formatting and spacing issues, but I can get to those with full Finale once you've updated everything else (and uploaded the correct file).
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there's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
The difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

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Re: [DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2020, 05:53:30 AM »

Sorry for the long delay on getting back to you.

It’s all cool. I’m busy too, and you give a lot of feedback, so the wait is expected. And I say it basically every time, but thank you for the feedback. Always makes the sheet sound so much cooler and amazing.

You have the wrong MUS file, though, so here's what I can offer for now based on the PDF before you upload the right MUS...

Bruh moment. I’m really hoping that doesn’t mean the original’s not on my computer whatsoever. Still, it wouldn’t take that long to make all the changes again since I’ll have a reference.

Nice to know we’ve got some harmonies to add in this one. (And yes, thankfully the slash key does work.) I set myself a deadline of November 7th (this weekend is the last weekend of the quarter, so lots of work to do), we’ll see what happens.
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Re: [DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2020, 06:26:38 PM »

Ye, I like those additions. And okie, it's updated now. I see what I did wrong before, heh. This time, the Snow Hope Village file should be uploaded instead of the Snow La Coasta. Can't believe I confused the two.
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Re: [DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2020, 02:09:48 AM »

Looking better! Some final suggestions:
- For m10 and m41, you could do something like this to add in the chords (also note that the Fn on beat 4 should be written as an E# in both hands):

- I would write the RH rhythms in m11-30 like this:

- In m12 and all similar measures, I think the descending pattern in LH beats 3-4 should be written as C-Bb-An-Ab. Similarly, in m24 and all similar measures, LH beats 3-4 should be written as F-Eb-Dn-Db. (I think, anyway—another updater could double-check me on this).
- In m23 and all similar measures, LH beat 3 should be written as a Bb instead of an A#. Same for m24/68 RH beat 3 (top note on the chord should be written as Bb instead of A#).
- m35 RH is still missing the thirds (use the same harmonies as m5).
- For m42-50 RH, perhaps include staccatos on the eighth note dyads on beats 2.5 and 4.5? (Not including beat 4.5 of m45/49/50)
- Also a staccato on m45 LH beat 3?
- m49 RH beat 3 should have an A under the F#. Also, both the RH and LH could have a staccato on beat 3.
- m50 RH beat 3 should have an A under the D. Beats 3.5-4.5 (last three notes) double the LH part in the treble clef (e.g. just above middle C). Also, both the RH and LH should have a staccato on beat 3.
- m46-50 LH should be an octave lower.
- In m51/53/55/57, I would suggest not using staccatos on 16th notes since I think it's unnecessary. Also, in m51/55, I would add a staccato to RH beat 2.25 (G), and in m53/57, I would add staccatos to ALL the eighth notes in the RH (but not the sixteenth notes).
- You might consider raising m51-58 RH up an octave for emphasis.
- The eighth notes at the end of m54 LH don't sound staccato to me. Also, the RH doubles the LH eighth notes sone octave above (e.g. G, A, and B above middle C). Additionally, you could tie the half notes in the RH and LH over to eighth notes on beat 3 so that there's no gap.
- In m51-58, all of the A#'s should be written as Bb's, all of the G#'s should be written as Ab's, and all of the D#'s should be written as Eb's.
- m53 and m57 RH beat 4.5 should be an Eb instead of a B.
- This is how I would write m55-58 (note: modified LH harmonies, staccatos every other note in the LH, added RH eighth notes in second half of m58; ignore the weird symbols in m59-60, that's Finale import being screwy):

- In m62/66/70/74, you don't need a staccato on RH beat 1.
- Don't forget to make the same changes in m59-74 as in m15-30.
- I would suggest doubling the RH an octave higher in m75 beats 1-4 and m76 beat 1 (i.e. so the RH plays octaves), and then raise the octave m76 RH beat 2 up another octave. Also, you could alternate the LH eighth notes in m75 up-down-up-down like you did in m31. Finally, m76 LH beat 2 (the last note) should be lowered an octave.

Whew, that's a lot, but after that, it should be mostly good to go. There are still other things to handle that you can't do without full Finale (so don't worry about doing this yourself), mainly:
- Note spacing
- System spacing and clashing with margins/each other
- Repeat endings - clashing with notes, ending numbers should have periods after them
- Maybe measure distribution per page and system distribution per page should be expanded so that it uses a 4th page? It's pretty cramped as is.

I would like to make these fixes myself for you, but unfortunately your files get really screwy when I import them into my version of Finale, so you'll have to make the first list of changes, and then maybe another updater can help with the stuff that requires full Finale.
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there's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
The difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

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Re: [DC] Wacky Races - "Snow Hope Village" by ShyYoshiGuy
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2020, 02:15:38 AM »

The beginning of your message made it seem like there were only a couple things, but then it kept going on, lol. Anyways, thank you.

I would like to make these fixes myself for you, but unfortunately your files get really screwy when I import them into my version of Finale, so you'll have to make the first list of changes, and then maybe another updater can help with the stuff that requires full Finale.

Yeah, I know the deal this time ‘round. Changes aren’t very time-consuming anyways. Hopefully I’ll get this done tomorrow, but if not, expect this from me by next Saturday.

[Edit 11/22/2020: I’m well aware I’m late on this one, no need to bump. Crazy events like water gushing from light fixtures means, uh, expect it by Thanksgiving, lol.]
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 06:53:22 PM by ShyYoshiGuy »
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