Super Smash Bros Fisticuffs for Wii U and Nintendo 3DS

[SlowPokemon]

Well, I look at it like this. If I was a little kid playing through Pokemon X and Y, I'd rather play as Lucario in Smash Bros. than Mewtwo. I think that Lucario is a lot more relevant to modern Pokemon.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

Well, I look at it like this. If I was a little kid playing through Pokemon X and Y, I'd rather play as Lucario in Smash Bros. than Mewtwo. I think that Lucario is a lot more relevant to modern Pokemon.

Super Smash Bros. Melee and Brawl (and possibly the upcoming ones, although their rating is currently pending) are rated T, though. "Little kids" aren't the only intended audience.

[FierceDeity]

Mewtwo is an iconic Pokémon in general though (probably one of the most iconic legendaries), and it also fits for X and Y (which is what I said originally- it doesn't matter whether it's more story-significant than Lucario, because it's still very important to X and Y in general, given that its Mega Evolution was the first revealed).

Well, I look at it like this. If I was a little kid playing through Pokemon X and Y, I'd rather play as Lucario in Smash Bros. than Mewtwo. I think that Lucario is a lot more relevant to modern Pokemon.

Yeah, you've gotta consider Nintendo's target demographic, here. The Mega Mewtwo reveal was really just to hype up nostalgic gamers who hadn't bought a Pokémon game in a while. A lot of people who bought X and Y won't have been following news about the games as obsessively as we were, as well as not having played the original games, and so Mewtwo won't have nearly as much significance to them. People for whom he does have significance will probably have enough things factoring into their decision about buying the game that having Mewtwo wouldn't really make or break the decision.

It's not like Mega Man, where a large amount of the fanbase is demanding a main character from a franchise that doesn't have any representation yet in Super Smash Bros. It's a low-demand, rather irrelevant character from a franchise with several characters already in Super Smash Bros. He's never been important for the plot in any of the games, either; it's the movie(s) that popularized him, for the most part.

ugh, you responded while I was typing, damnit

Super Smash Bros. Melee and Brawl (and possibly the upcoming ones, although their rating is currently pending) are rated T, though. "Little kids" aren't the only intended audience.

Marketing, in a way, works like politics. You have a certain percentage of the population that will support you despite whatever minor adjustments to your policy, or game, that you make. Those adjustments, then, have to be tiered towards the people who are not yet set on buying your game. People who have grown up with Super Smash Bros. and Pokémon already have an idea of whether or not they want to buy this game. They're more mature consumers, who won't buy or not buy a game because "OOH THAT ONE POKEMON I REALLY LIKE IS/ISN'T IN IT". Younger children, however, are far more fickle, and so the Pokémon that they're more likely to be familiar with was included.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

I find it somewhat entertaining how I responded to a post asking peoples' opinions on a subject, and you responded essentially saying, "NO! Your opinion is wrong!"

Yeah, you've gotta consider Nintendo's target demographic, here. The Mega Mewtwo reveal was really just to hype up nostalgic gamers who hadn't bought a Pokémon game in a while. A lot of people who bought X and Y won't have been following news about the games as obsessively as we were, as well as not having played the original games, and so Mewtwo won't have nearly as much significance to them. People for whom he does have significance will probably have enough things factoring into their decision about buying the game that having Mewtwo wouldn't really make or break the decision.

Your logic is essentially like saying that they shouldn't have included the Pokémon Trainer with Gen 1 starters in Brawl. Super Smash Bros. caters to all (or at least, most) demographics, not just one in particular- I mean, Solid Snake was in Brawl! SOLID SNAKE, from a game most kids won't play (I hope) or they may not have even heard of! I understand that it's a different franchise, but then again, my argument still holds true with the Pokémon trainer- not to mention why Mewtwo was included in X/Y in the first place (as well as tons of other Pokémon from previous generations).
If this were a Pokémon-only fighting game, I could completely understand you, but I was merely expressing my opinion on the matter and wondering why Nintendo wouldn't capitalize on the "best of both worlds old and new" character, Mewtwo (or even wondering why they didn't just pick a representative directly from Gen 5/6).

They're more mature consumers, who won't buy or not buy a game because "OOH THAT ONE POKEMON I REALLY LIKE IS/ISN'T IN IT".

Nostalgia?
That's not my point. You lecture me on marketing () but haven't heard of "appeal to the fans" (not that Lucario wouldn't, but as I said earlier, there were other options)?

[SlowPokemon]

FierceDeity... I recommend you leave this one be

[BlackDragonSlayer]

FierceDeity... I recommend you leave this one be

*expresses disagreement with somebody's opinion*
*get surprised and annoyed when they disagree with your disagreement*

[SlowPokemon]

This is really random at this point, but I'm really excited that Rosalina is going to be a character. She's my favorite Nintendo heroine; Peach is all nice and everything but Rosalina is a really cool character.

[FierceDeity]

FierceDeity... I recommend you leave this one be

Sorry, slow, I've never been a big fan of the high road...

I find it somewhat entertaining how I responded to a post asking peoples' opinions on a subject, and you responded essentially saying, "NO! Your opinion is wrong!"

*expresses disagreement with somebody's opinion*
*get surprised and annoyed when they disagree with your disagreement*

What have I said that makes me sound surprised or annoyed? We've both been stating our points in a virtually identical manner. I'm not restricting your ability to have an opinion, I'm simply holding it up against my own. You treat every argument as if you're the victim, when in reality, we're both doing the same exact thing. The fact that opinions are asked for doesn't mean that debate isn't allowed. In fact, in many topics, it almost guarantees that it will occur. I won't argue about Mewtwo/Lucario anymore, as it's pretty clear at this point where our differences lie on this rather insignificant issue. I will ask, however, that you stop pretending that debates are one-sided, and that opinions are infallible.

This is really random at this point, but I'm really excited that Rosalina is going to be a character. She's my favorite Nintendo heroine; Peach is all nice and everything but Rosalina is a really cool character.

I'm really excited to see how they're going to work in Luma. The trailer made it seem like it's not just going to be an "Olimar throws a Pikmin as an attack" type thing.

[SlowPokemon]

I find it funny how much they're stressing Rosalina lately. She made the cut of Mario Kart 7, is an unlockable character in Super Mario 3D World for crying out loud, and now she's in Smash Bros.? I smell Galaxy 3.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

What have I said that makes me sound surprised or annoyed?

With the second quote, I was responding specifically to Slow, because he always seems to be saying (or implying) that I'm in the wrong for having an opinion different than that of others.

We've both been stating our points in a virtually identical manner. I'm not restricting your ability to have an opinion, I'm simply holding it up against my own. You treat every argument as if you're the victim, when in reality, we're both doing the same exact thing. The fact that opinions are asked for doesn't mean that debate isn't allowed. In fact, in many topics, it almost guarantees that it will occur. I won't argue about Mewtwo/Lucario anymore, as it's pretty clear at this point where our differences lie on this rather insignificant issue. I will ask, however, that you stop pretending that debates are one-sided, and that opinions are infallible.

I wonder how you can say that I am "pretending that debates are one-sided," when that's essentially what your own arguments were reflecting (e.g. that Mewtwo shouldn't has no reason to be in the new Smash Bros. over Lucario, and it's silly to think otherwise)!
As for the "opinions are infallible" part, you seem to fail to grasp the simple concept that I was merely expressing my opinion in the first place, and made that clear several times (yet you suggest that that's not what I was doing?)! You seemed to be treating the debate as if it were my standpoint that I was outraged and surprised that they picked Lucario over Mewtwo (and saying that they made a mistake having Lucario, and how the game would be that much worse with Lucario), rather than that I was hoping that they would have picked Mewtwo over Lucario (and, if anything, it's you who have been treating what you're saying as more "infallible"), or that I was wrong for suggesting/wanting Mewtwo/some other Pokémon over Lucario.

You also say that I "treat every argument as if (I was) the victim," but I have only done anything mildly close to that (not to the level of being "victimized"- more like calling people out for attacking/insulting me) when people are actually attacking me (obviously). I don't see how I've been acting like the "victim" in this debate when all I said was you were treating my opinion as if it were wrong (and trying to "correct" it) rather than merely responding to it with your own (which is the tone I got from reading your responses).

I find it funny how much they're stressing Rosalina lately. She made the cut of Mario Kart 7, is an unlockable character in Super Mario 3D World for crying out loud, and now she's in Smash Bros.? I smell Galaxy 3.

It does seem like a surprise, especially with all the Mario characters already in Smash Bros.

[SlowPokemon]

FierceDeity... I recommend you leave this one be

I implore you

[Clanker37]

FierceDeity... I recommend you leave this one be

Please, for the sanity of us all. THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

[Waddle Bro]

BDS vs. FierceDeity

I bet my money on never-ending

[FierceDeity]

Wait but guys, he actually thinks that I'm trying to insult him. If anything, I have to at least make sure he realizes that's not the case...

As for the "opinions are infallible" part, you seem to fail to grasp the simple concept that I was merely expressing my opinion in the first place, and made that clear several times (yet you suggest that that's not what I was doing?)!

No, that's my point. You expressed an opinion, I expressed my disagreement with it, which is, in itself, an opinion. We both expressed them based on particular reasons. You expressing your opinion, conflicting with my own, is in essence, calling my own opinion incorrect, whether or not it was directed at a statement of mine. I repeat, we are both doing the same exact thing. By the "opinions are infallible" part, I merely meant that you act as if I'm not allowed to argue against your opinion on the basis that it is an opinion.

You also say that I "treat every argument as if (I was) the victim," but I have only done anything mildly close to that (not to the level of being "victimized"- more like calling people out for attacking/insulting me) when people are actually attacking me (obviously). I don't see how I've been acting like the "victim" in this debate when all I said was you were treating my opinion as if it were wrong (and trying to "correct" it) rather than merely responding to it with your own (which is the tone I got from reading your responses).

Assuming that people are attacking or insulting you just because they disagree with your opinion is literally exactly what I meant by saying that you treat it as if you're the victim. I by no means think less of you because of your opinion on what particular telepathic Pokémon should go into a fighting game where one will inevitably be a reskinning of the other. If you got that from my tone, then I apologize, and would ask that you find specific instances where it sounds like that (as tone arises from identifiable word choice), and I'll try to clarify my intent. For example, I find your tone rather condescending when you say things like "you seem to fail to grasp the simple concept".

...We can take this to PM, if need be, haha.

[Echo]

telepathic Pokémon should go into a fighting game where one will inevitably be a reskinning of the other.

I don't really understand this viewpoint, since off the top of my head, the only similarities that Mewtwo and Lucario had in Smash were that they had a similar B move and that they were floaty (though everyone in Brawl was floaty). That being said, Lucario being confirmed doesn't necessarily mean that Mewtwo won't come back as well, and Mewtwo sucked in Melee anyway. >_>