Post here if you want help working out what key or time signature is used in an arrangement you're working on ;)
I don't know if I should post this here, but I use this (http://www.widisoft.com/english/download.html) to figure out the key signature of a song.
It's a mp3 to midi converter, but the conversion is horrible, so it's useless for picking up notes. However, it does tell you what key signature it's in (I don't know how accurate it is, considering I don't have perfect pitch.)
Oh, and the free trial only lasts 30 days, but it still has enough features after the free trial to be able to use it for key signatures.
My technique is to just match what I hear as the tonic pitch. (The base note of the scale/key)
It doesn't take nearly as long as running the whole thing through a program, and it's always 100% accurate.
You basically just need something pitched, like any instrument, or transcribing program like Finale.
Then: you just guess, until you get the right tonic.
You should be able to hear if it is in major or minor, and ta-da - you have the key signature!
Quote from: Jompa on March 26, 2013, 07:35:36 AMYou basically just need something pitched, like any instrument, or transcribing program like Finale.
Then: you just guess, until you get the right tonic.
With practice it comes quicker.
sorry, what do you mean?
It wasn't anything important. I was just commenting on how when you practice enough, you can pick out the tonic note quicker because you will already almost if not already know what it is.
Your "guesses" become more and more accurate.
Well, you wouldn't really get a right guess if you got a wrong guess (duh), so what you what you are saying is obviously true, but if you have something pitched, guessing the tonic wouldn't really take too long anyways though :P
That sounds a lot easier, however, I don't know if I trust my ear enough.
Hmmm that's interesting. I always worked out the key of the song after I transcribed at least a position of the song.
Quote from: JDMEK5 on March 26, 2013, 03:00:25 PMIt wasn't anything important. I was just commenting on how when you practice enough, you can pick out the tonic note quicker because you will already almost if not already know what it is.
Your "guesses" become more and more accurate.
Pretty soon, they don't become guesses. You eventually get good enough where you can literally hear key changes and modulations. It just takes time and a focused ear and I promise you, you will get there. You just got to keep it up.
But brassman, we aren't talking about key changes and modulations.
We are talking about key signatures, and unless you have absolute pitch, you cannot hear those unless you guess your way to the right tonic.
Even without recognizing pitches it is possible to hear the scale or mode a song can be in by hearing the pattern of half steps and whole steps. (I tend to relate modes and scale qualities with emotions. Go figure.)
And jompa, a similar technique can be obtained through practice called "relative pitch". Once you get that down, you won't even need the external reference(I'm usually fairly accurate down to the half-step)
But you shouldn't count on it too much.
Absolute pitch is the only way to be sure.
Shouldn't count on it? Nonsense! You should use it as much as you can! Trusting your instincts is an important part of being a musician. It's hard to describe, but you feel this sort of uneasy feeling in your gut when you're not 100% on pitch. Its like a sharp pain. (At least that's what it's like for me)
But we're getting off topic here. It's perfectly normal to use an outside reference, such as a piano, if you can't recognize pitch classes. However, it is a crutch that we as musicians should ween ourselves from. There won't always be a perfectly tuned reference at our disposal.
When I say you shouldn't count on it too much, I mean that you can't be absolutely sure. You really can't.
But some people do have better relative pitch than others - there is some science that suggests it has to do with the childhood, and that something triggered your brain to train this ability at an early age.
Very few people have absolute pitch, and they don't even have to be musicians to have it.
Even your neighbor could have it.
Also: there is a very big gap between
good relative pitch and absolute pitch, so either you have it, or you don't.
Olimar, you probably have very good relative pitch, and you are trying to train it as well, so that is very good for you.
I don't have any knowledge of whether I have a good or bad relative pitch, as I haven't tried to focus on mine yet, but if anything, I probably have a bad relative pitch.
You can never expect of someone to have good relative pitch!
And even though you have good relative pitch - as I said before - you aren't sure unless you have absolute pitch, which very few people have - therefore counting on your relative pitch too much isn't something to bet on.
Example: You are supposed to find the key by hearing the key in a song in A major. But a minute ago, you listened to a song that you
don't know is in B major, and a minute before that you listened to a song that you know is in D major - it is possible this series of key changes can make your mind forget which tone is D etc., and that could mess up your decision. It is a fact that it is harder to remember a tone over a long period of time anyways, and when this is meddled with by songs in other key signatures - well, it is a very big chance of loosing the pitch.
^I don't actually know if this example could be true, but this is how I imagine it to work.
At least with me, that is..
In conclusion:
The only way for someone with relative pitch to be sure, is to have something tuned.
QuoteEven without recognizing pitches it is possible to hear the scale or mode a song can be in by hearing the pattern of half steps and whole steps. (I tend to relate modes and scale qualities with emotions. Go figure.)
You are correct of course!, but scales and modes are something completely else.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on March 27, 2013, 07:47:48 AMEven without recognizing pitches it is possible to hear the scale or mode a song can be in by hearing the pattern of half steps and whole steps. (I tend to relate modes and scale qualities with emotions. Go figure.)
Pretty much, man. If you can't see the wisdom in this, I believe there is no hope for you as an arranger, or musician for that matter.
Absolute pitch is a gift. Relative pitch is gained through hard work and constant practice.
If I find the whole pitch thing exceedingly easy, does it even matter if I have perfect pitch? I don't know if I do. I don't understand what the big deal is about it.
Unless you're a musician that has Absolute pitch, it kinda just renders it useless. No, I don't think it matter's either, but that's because I found ways and methods to work without having Absolute Pitch.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on March 27, 2013, 07:47:48 AMEven without recognizing pitches it is possible to hear the scale or mode a song can be in by hearing the pattern of half steps and whole steps. (I tend to relate modes and scale qualities with emotions. Go figure.)
Quote from: Brassman388 on March 27, 2013, 12:14:50 PMPretty much, man. If you can't see the wisdom in this, I believe there is no hope for you as an arranger, or musician for that matter.
But, that has nothing to do with relative or absolute pitch.
Someone without any pitch at all could hear that too.
Quote from: Brassman388 on March 27, 2013, 12:44:21 PMbut that's because I found ways and methods to work without having Absolute Pitch.
Also, I want to know; are you talking about methods of finding the key, or are you talking about methods to find scales and modes? Because it is not possible to know for sure what key a song is in unless you have absolute pitch, and one wouldn't even need any pitch to find the scales and modes?
Do you really care what we think, or are you just trying to prove us wrong? I'm honestly asking because I'm not going to waste my time explaining if you're just going to disagree with everything I say.
And tension arises...
jompa plz
Quote from: Brassman388 on March 27, 2013, 03:21:42 PMDo you really care what we think, or are you just trying to prove us wrong? I'm honestly asking because I'm not going to waste my time explaining if you're just going to disagree with everything I say.
Are you saying I'm wrong?
Because I'm saying you are both wrong and off-topic.
No reason to get mad about it, but there is nothing wrong with me pointing that out.
Jompa, would you kindly answer Brassman's question? Your answer will determine my next post in this topic.
Quote from: Jompa on March 27, 2013, 05:41:39 PMBecause I'm saying you are both wrong and off-topic.
No, you're all off topic.
Any more posts on this stupid, childish debate will be deleted.
Quote from: DekuTrombonist on March 24, 2013, 03:27:01 PMPost here if you want help working out what key or time signature is used in an arrangement you're working on ;)
What time sig/key is this song in?
Lets take the trumpet theme in the beginning as a starting point. As the rest song is built around it, it is safe to use that as a starting point.
We can hear that it is the mode "eolian" - which basically is minor. Something to note is that songs in eolian mode usually focus a lot on a sharpened seventh, which this song does! Therefore we can conclude that it is in harmonic minor, but that's not really important unless you want to get deep into it. The only thing that is important so far; is to hear that it is in minor.
I basically did all the work here, but you are supposed to be able to find out something like this on your own. If you son't feel like you are able to hear wether or not a song is in major or minor, or some specific mode, then there is only one thing that helps, and that is practice!
So we could hear that it was in minor!
But, somthing we can't hear; is the pitch.
Therefore we open finale/walk over to our piano and find the right pitch for the key signature, which turns out to be A.
So as a conclusion this song is in A minor. Easy as pie.
Huh. You guys all have intricate methods of finding the key. I just arrange some of it and go, "Oh look all the F's, C's and G's are sharpened. It must be A major."
I never knew it could get so complicated :o
Quote from: Clanker37 on April 03, 2013, 06:09:55 AMI just arrange some of it and go, "Oh look all the F's, C's and G's are sharpened. It must be A major."
But then it could be F# minor right? Or it could be a different mode. Maybe E major but no Ds were played in the arranged section.
There is a technique to this.
Quote from: Jompa on March 28, 2013, 05:02:19 PMSo as a conclusion this song is in A minor. Easy as pie.
A minor
harmonic you mean.
Quote from: Jompa on March 28, 2013, 05:02:19 PMWe can hear that it is the mode "eolian" - which basically is minor. Something to note is that songs in eolian mode usually focus a lot on a sharpened seventh, which this song does!
It's called aeolian but either way aeolian mode itself doesn't include the sharpened seventh. The more general minor scale in which aeolian or natural minor is often freely interchanged with harmonic minor or melodic minor does. Ofc, a piece in an aoelian key (note: not minor scale) can include chromaticism but not necesarily the sharp 6th or sharp 7th kind.
Quote from: JDMEK5 on April 03, 2013, 07:19:19 AMA minor harmonic you mean.
That's right, but harmonic minor isn't a mode, so I didn't want to use that word when I was already talking about modes and stuff - harmonic minor is minor, so saying it's aeolian isn't wrong, but it is very unprecise - however I didn't wanna make it
more complicated, I mean when writing for harmonic minor you just use the aeolian mode anyway, and add the loose accidental for sharpened seventh.
Quote from: Ricky on April 03, 2013, 09:43:51 AMIt's called aeolian but either way aeolian mode itself doesn't include the sharpened seventh. The more general minor scale in which aeolian or natural minor is often freely interchanged with harmonic minor or melodic minor does. Ofc, a piece in an aoelian key (note: not minor scale) can include chromaticism but not necesarily the sharp 6th or sharp 7th kind.
I know, I know - it doesn't
include a sharpened seventh, but that doesn't expel them - as I said above, I was talking about modes anyways, so suddenly calling it harmonic minor would be complicating things.
Besides, I didn't listen to much of the clip, I just rushed through the start, so if I were to say it was in harmonic minor - but later, the song uses normal sevenths - I would have been wrong.
There are a bunch of sharpened fourths here too, but that doesn't make it hungarian minor because they don't necessarily happen
every time.Quote from: Clanker37 on April 03, 2013, 06:09:55 AMI never knew it could get so complicated :o
Well, this is more or less the easy part of arranging, in my book.
Quote from: JDMEK5 on April 03, 2013, 07:19:19 AMBut then it could be F# minor right? Or it could be a different mode. Maybe E major but no Ds were played in the arranged section.
There is a technique to this.
Yeah, the only technique is to use something pitched to find the tonic - which you should be able to hear in your head while listening to the song.
Well, a scale equals a mode in my opinion. Ofc we have the church modes or western modes (however you would like to call them) which specifically are Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian. But harmonic minor for example is also a mode imo. And yes I guess you can sort modes into minor or major. Aeolian, dorian, phrygian and the many modifications such as harmonic minor are typically sorted into the minor category.
Quote from: JDMEK5 on April 03, 2013, 07:19:19 AMBut then it could be F# minor right? Or it could be a different mode. Maybe E major but no Ds were played in the arranged section.
Well, I also match the chords. Like if the F,C and G's were sharpened, but it was to a minor chord in the first bar, I would auto-assume F# minor. However, this has tricked me when ever I get a ii-V-I variation or something. Basically I pick out major or minor before I start arranging.
Quote from: Jompa on April 03, 2013, 11:15:01 AMWell, this is more or less the easy part of arranging, in my book.
Yeah, I find it extremely easy as well using my method, but I just haven't covered many of the modes in my learning yet, so when you guys go all Lydian and Aeolian I'm like ._.
Quote from: Clanker37 on April 04, 2013, 02:51:14 AMWell, I also match the chords. Like if the F,C and G's were sharpened, but it was to a minor chord in the first bar, I would auto-assume F# minor. However, this has tricked me when ever I get a ii-V-I variation or something. Basically I pick out major or minor before I start arranging.Yeah, I find it extremely easy as well using my method, but I just haven't covered many of the modes in my learning yet, so when you guys go all Lydian and Aeolian I'm like ._.
Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl8lSHLHDcA
and you will know at least some about the lydian and aeolian amongst other modes.
Quote from: Clanker37 on April 04, 2013, 02:51:14 AMWell, I also match the chords. Like if the F,C and G's were sharpened, but it was to a minor chord in the first bar, I would auto-assume F# minor. However, this has tricked me when ever I get a ii-V-I variation or something. Basically I pick out major or minor before I start arranging.
This way, you don't need to actually arrange the chords before you find out the key - and there is the danger of a song being in a weird mode, so if you don't hear out the tonic first, you risk putting the wrong key signature if you don't pay attention.
All you need to find is the tonic - that's all - the
one tonic note of the song - and after that you go on to modes, and the actual arranging.
QuoteYeah, I find it extremely easy as well using my method, but I just haven't covered many of the modes in my learning yet, so when you guys go all Lydian and Aeolian I'm like ._.
They are very easy to learn - both to hear and the theory. :) I understood them completely the same day I chose to research them.
Quote from: Ricky on April 03, 2013, 11:20:30 PMWell, a scale equals a mode in my opinion. Ofc we have the church modes or western modes (however you would like to call them) which specifically are Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian. But harmonic minor for example is also a mode imo. And yes I guess you can sort modes into minor or major. Aeolian, dorian, phrygian and the many modifications such as harmonic minor are typically sorted into the minor category.
Well - you can name a scale after a mode - like saying "Oh, when I improvised just now I only played a mixolydian scale descending" or something like that.
But saying they are the same thing isn't correct.
And when I am talking about modes - I think I mean the church modes (I am really sorry if I have referred to them wrong, but I'm not english speaking, so when it comes to translating terms, I might be a bit off). I mean the Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian, not including scales like minor blues, japanese pentatonic etc.
If by just "mode" you include harmonic minor, melodic minor and so on with all types of scales: Well, we don't really have a term for that in Norwegian (we just say that the song is in X), so I probably said something wrong - As I said, I have meant church modes all along, so that's why.
Warning, me playing smart-ass: Locrian also counts as minor ::)
Harmonic and melodic minors are not modes in and of themselves. They're more like exceptions to the rules that are commonly used and accepted because they sound good/cool/neat.
Aeolian mode is
the minor mode. Natural minor, only the natural minor, and nothing but the natural minor.
Quote from: Jompa on April 04, 2013, 06:52:35 AMLocrian also counts as minor.
Because it is the relative minor of the dominant, yes.
Harmonic/melodic minors are not their own modes, but only variations to the aeolian mode.
I'm hoping to revive my Music Theory Q/A topic and once I finish the next "all you need to know on basic key signatures", I'll put one up on modes.
Well, actually Locrian mode can be referred to as a diminished mode but ofc it has more minor characteristics than major ones. So it can be counted as minor. Alright, if we count only the church modes as modes then indeed these are the only (western) modes. I guess the rest of the scales can be sorted into other groups like for example pentatonic.
I recommend a book called "Modal Music Composition" by Stephen M. Cormier whether you are into composition and such or just want to learn some new music theory. He gives a new approach (as in non-medieval or reneissance) to how modes can be used today not just as minor (no pun intended) details in certain compositions but for complete compositions and compete with the major/minor system. Lots of things such as characteristics, progressions, stability, modulation, cadences, chromaticism etc. are described. He suggests three scalar dyad alternatives to the major/minor system: Ionian/Aeolian, Mixolydian/Phrygian and Lydian/Dorian.
Quote from: Ricky on April 04, 2013, 09:22:49 AMWell, actually Locrian mode can be referred to as a diminished mode...
You're right, but I meant the locrian can be harmonicized/melodicized similar to a minor key because the
chord is the relative minor of the dominant.
My fault for not explaining that.
Funny how everyone's contaminated by my smart-ass virus after that locrian comment :P
Quote from: Jompa on April 04, 2013, 09:50:59 AMFunny how everyone's contaminated by my smart-ass virus after that locrian comment :P
That's what happens when you get a group of perfectionists and a vague statement.
I'm arranging this, but I don't want to end up having the wrong key/time sig.
So can someone please find it out for me.
BTW, learing how to arrange entire songs by ear, so I shouldn't have to use this topic after a while.
It is in C major with Lydian traits.
Time signature is 2/4 - but if you feel like it you could instead use 4/4.
I get how you can figure out a key signature by ear (it's pretty easy) but how do you do time signatures. I'm horrible at counting, so I end up going 4/4 and if something is weird about it, I change it to something that makes more sense (and even then, it's probably in the wrong time signature.)
o_o youre joking right. I cant figure out a key signature without basically doing the entire song first, while time signatures are easy XD
I'm probably not the best person to give advice but I'll do it anyway :P
Normally I listen to the lower notes in the song (or maybe just the background notes). 3/4 timing would be strong-weak-weak for the three beats in each measure, while 4/4 timing would be strong-weak-medium-weak. those are the only two i know When i listen to the song I just tap that out and if it fits, it fits
Bubbles is right, time sigs are definitely the easiest part. There are only a couple songs that I've had trouble with, but now I can hear 7/8. Be sure to pm me if you have trouble, Fire.
I think key signatures and time signatures are equally easy.
As far as time signatures go:
2/4 is when the phrases are short, etc. (i.e. "Ground Theme" from New Super Mario Bros. Wii)
4/4 is normal, 4 beats per measures music (i.e. "Ground Theme" from Super Mario Bros.)
3/4 is used when the piece is a waltz of some sort, or as Bubbles put it, strong-weak-weak (with the accent on every third note) (i.e. "Underwater Theme" from Super Mario Bros.)
Now for the alternatives to swing tempos:
6/8 is basically 3/4 with the accents on every three EIGHTH notes. Used often for marches and the like (i.e. "Title Screen" from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Blue Rescue Team and Red Rescue Team)
12/8 is basically 6/8 doubled because the phrases are longer (i.e. "The Great Don Paolo" from Professor Layton and the Curious Village, "Team Skull" from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Explorers of Darkness)
9/8 is basically 6/8 but used as more of a waltz, with repeating phrases of three dotted quarter notes which are in turn made up of three eighth notes (i.e. "Sootopolis City" from Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire)
Hope that helps.
Edit: Oh and then you have the random ones in 5/8 or 7/8 (I believe "Eterna Forest" from Pokemon Diamond and Pearl is in 5/8 and I can't think of any video game song in 7/8 atm)
I think I remember someone saying the Title Theme of OOT was in 7/8? Only the first few measures or something
No. That one's in 4/4.
Quote from: Bubbles7689 on April 08, 2013, 06:37:46 PMI think I remember someone saying the Title Theme of OOT was in 7/8? Only the first few measures or something
Oh, that'd be the staff roll. :P
THAT'S THE ONE I WAS TRYING TO REMEMBER
Oh wow, thanks guys! I guess I'll use this thread what it's meant for...
What time signature is this song in? Currently, I have the intro at 4/4 and the rest at 12/8 (when the 8th notes come in.) 6/8 would probably make more sense, but then I need to tie a note over a measure, which doesn't feel right to me.
@fire: that whole song is in 4/4
@Slow: I'm going to have to disagree with you on your time signatures regarding the eight in the denominator.
6/8 is more closely related to 2/4, as they both have two strong beats. 6/8 would be counted:
ONE - two - three - FOUR - five - six, and 2/4 would be counted: ONE - and - TWO - and.
12/8 is like 4/4 if triplets got the beat, plus they're both conducted the same way.
9/8 in most cases gets the 12/8 treatment, and is conducted like 3/4 with triplets.
How can time signatures be hard, everyone knows how to count right?
The /8 time signatures are basically indicating that there is three eights per beat.
In 6/8 there are two beats - so it works like a 2/4 with tuplet eights.
In 12/8 there are four beats - so it works like a 4/4 with tuplet eights.
In 9/8 there are three beats - so it works like a 3/4 with tuplet eights.
A lot of people suck at reading these time sigs, so I usually assign a "swing"-expression to the /4 time sigs instead, for readability reasons.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on April 08, 2013, 08:40:04 PM@fire: that whole song is in 4/4
@Slow: I'm going to have to disagree with you on your time signatures regarding the eight in the denominator.
6/8 is more closely related to 2/4, as they both have two strong beats. 6/8 would be counted:
ONE - two - three - FOUR - five - six, and 2/4 would be counted: ONE - and - TWO - and.
12/8 is like 4/4 if triplets got the beat, plus they're both conducted the same way.
9/8 in most cases gets the 12/8 treatment, and is conducted like 3/4 with triplets.
How is this different from what I said?
Well, Slow, your explanation wouldn't have gotten any points if you wrote it in my teacher's tests:
You more or less said that:
6/8 is like 3/4, but that the third eight in every measure is stressed.
And that in 12/8 is like 6/4 with the eights stressed the same way.
And the same with 9/8
I don't think that is an explanation many people would understand(?), as you now are implying that there are 3, 4 (and 1,5) beats per measure in these time signatures. That is not true.
There are three
quarters, but not three beats - because - the beats aren't quarters anymore, they're dotted quarters.
Quote from: Jompa on April 08, 2013, 11:05:54 PMThe /8 time signatures are basically indicating that there is three eights per beat.
In 6/8 there are two beats - so it works like a 2/4 with tuplet eights.
In 12/8 there are four beats - so it works like a 4/4 with tuplet eights.
In 9/8 there are three beats - so it works like a 3/4 with tuplet eights.
I know that you already know this Slow, so I'm not trying to play smart-ass over you, but I think this is what Olimar meant.
I think Slow was more going for how the meter was divided rather than the actual feel of where the beats fell.
For example: the explanation of the relationship between 6/8 and 3/4. They both contain 6 eighth notes, it's just the beat on 6/8 falls on every 3 eighth notes, where as with 3/4, it falls on every 2 eighth notes.
The only one I didn't understand was the last one explaining the 9/8.
Quote from: Jompa on April 08, 2013, 11:05:54 PMThe /8 time signatures are basically indicating that there is three eights per beat.
That's not true. Sure, that may fit a few situations, but anything/8 simply indicates that the 8th note gets the beat. How they're grouped is determined based on the relationship of strong-to-weak beats, as determined by the composer. For example: 7/8 can't be put in groups of three's, simply because seven isn't divisible by three. Another interesting example is 9/8. Though it may seem "Standard" to group 9/8 as three sets of three eighth notes, it isn't set in stone that you have to. I have seen pieces where 9/8 was interpreted as 2+3+2+2. (Though, I myself would write it as 5/8+2/4).
Quote from: Jompa on April 08, 2013, 11:05:54 PMHow can time signatures be hard, everyone knows how to count right?
Be careful how you word this. Remember, this isn't the "Show off you're knowledge of theory" topic, it's the "Help those who don't fully understand it yet" topic.
Quote from: Jompa on April 08, 2013, 11:05:54 PMHow can time signatures be hard, everyone knows how to count right?
The /8 time signatures are basically indicating that there is three eights per beat.
In 6/8 there are two beats - so it works like a 2/4 with tuplet eights.
In 12/8 there are four beats - so it works like a 4/4 with tuplet eights.
In 9/8 there are three beats - so it works like a 3/4 with tuplet eights.
The problem is I'm REALLY bad at counting (music wise.) I've always had trouble sight reading becuase I mess up the timing of notes, and my biggest obstacle in arranging by ear is figuring out note durations. I know, it's pathetic.
Your explanation for the time signatures really made something click in my head thouh. I don't know why I didn't see that before, but it makes sense to me now. Now I just need to practice. :P
Quote from: Olimar12345 on April 09, 2013, 09:55:52 AMBe careful how you word this. Remember, this isn't the "Show off you're knowledge of theory" topic, it's the "Help those who don't fully understand it yet" topic.
So when I say "I can count" you look at that like showing off? There is a reason why I compared it to counting - because it is basically counting.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on April 09, 2013, 09:55:52 AMThat's not true. Sure, that may fit a few situations, but anything/8 simply indicates that the 8th note gets the beat.
well, no, that wouldn't make sense - because then there would in 9/8 be 9 beats where the eights are the beats, or I am I misunderstanding this sentence?
But I think the reason you say this is because you are thinking about the irregular time sigs
as well - just read further:
QuoteHow they're grouped is determined based on the relationship of strong-to-weak beats, as determined by the composer. For example: 7/8 can't be put in groups of three's, simply because seven isn't divisible by three. Another interesting example is 9/8. Though it may seem "Standard" to group 9/8 as three sets of three eighth notes, it isn't set in stone that you have to. I have seen pieces where 9/8 was interpreted as 2+3+2+2. (Though, I myself would write it as 5/8+2/4).
That is actually irrelevant, believe it or not.
All time signatures can be grouped under either "basic time signatures" or "irregular time signatures" <-- those are the Norwegian music theory terms, they probably aren't too different from whatever you would call them.
All /8 and /4 time signatures are under "basic time signatures". No time signature can be both irregular and basic.
7/8 doesn't count as one of the /8 time signatures - it is under "irregular time signatures", and in the cases where 9/8 is used as an irrelevant time signature, like 2+3+2+2, it doesn't count as a /8 time sig either, but like 7/8; an irregular one.
I mean you could even make 4/4 an irregular time signature if you want, like 1+2+1 or something silly like that - but then it wouldn't count as a basic time signature anymore, hence it can't be grouped under the /4 time signatures.
The /8 time signatures only include 6/8, 12/8 and 9/8 (and 3/8 and 15/8) when
not used irregularly.
Anything else falls under irregular time signatures, and you don't count those in with these basic time signatures.
So as I said, a /8 time signature (which means that it is one of the basic time signatures, and not an irregular one) indicates that there are three eights per beat.
Quote from: FireArrow on April 09, 2013, 11:59:08 AMThe problem is I'm REALLY bad at counting (music wise.) I've always had trouble sight reading becuase I mess up the timing of notes, and my biggest obstacle in arranging by ear is figuring out note durations. I know, it's pathetic.
Your explanation for the time signatures really made something click in my head thouh. I don't know why I didn't see that before, but it makes sense to me now. Now I just need to practice. :P
What I found out to really help, is to study some examples - find some pieces, perhaps at this site like I did, that basically are in these rather hard time signatures (or even the rather easy ones - if you need that too), and just experiment with them, and try to understand "why is that eight there?", "what happens if the third eight isn't there", etc.
I remember I learned a lot about the /8 time signatures after Dahans made his "Dewford Town" (http://www.ninsheetm.us/sheets/Pokemon/PokemonRubySapphire/DewfordTown.pdf) arrangement from "Pokémon Ruby, Sapphire & Emerald". Actually, I think that is what triggered me to start learning about the /8 signatures!
Quote from: FireArrow on April 09, 2013, 11:59:08 AMThe problem is I'm REALLY bad at counting (music wise.) I've always had trouble sight reading becuase I mess up the timing of notes, and my biggest obstacle in arranging by ear is figuring out note durations. I know, it's pathetic.
Your explanation for the time signatures really made something click in my head thouh. I don't know why I didn't see that before, but it makes sense to me now. Now I just need to practice. :P
Bud, it's not pathetic. Just a bit of practice a day will help you solve this problem. If you have windows media player, then you should try slowing it down to hear where each beat falls. That's what I used to do when I couldn't determine where to place the beat.
^Another good training method I used to do before I even got serious about music is just identify the time signature of something randomly on the radio.
To this day I can't go to a symphony without checking the time signature every 2 minutes. :P
Quote from: Brassman388 on April 10, 2013, 01:44:20 PMBud, it's not pathetic. Just a bit of practice a day will help you solve this problem. If you have windows media player, then you should try slowing it down to hear where each beat falls. That's what I used to do when I couldn't determine where to place the beat.
I do slow down the song, but when I count, I'm unable to place the note (my brain can't multitask while counting music...) I'll keep trying though. I'll listen to midi's from the site, try to figure out the time signature, then check to see if I'm right.
Thanks a ton! I really appreciate the help!
Quote from: JDMEK5 on April 10, 2013, 01:51:08 PM^Another good training method I used to do before I even got serious about music is just identify the time signature of something randomly on the radio.
To this day I can't go to a symphony without checking the time signature every 2 minutes. :P
^I think that would be the best way!
Just counting along, or beat-boxing to any song you hear :) I think that helps making you comfortable with where the beats are.
I remember I did that a lot, about a year ago, when I started arranging.
Practicing with beat-boxing will especially make transposing and composing for drums and percussion a lot more comfortable, reliable and just better quality-wise.
It's like learning to improvise - you start off with scatting first, so you understand how to make an idea come to life in the shape of music.
Ninja'd
Quote from: FireArrow on April 10, 2013, 02:02:16 PMI'll listen to midi's from the site, try to figure out the time signature, then check to see if I'm right.
Yes, do that!
Video game music is quite helpful for learning these types of things.
Well, I'm not that good at figuring out time signatures so could ask for a little help.
Is that in 3/4? Well, the way I'm thinking is that the guitar part goes like 1&2&3&, 1&2&3& and so on. If that's the case then the drum heard at least at the start seems to go slightly later than the the "and" after 3 or is possibly played at the "and".
The song appears to be in some sort of derivative of 3/4. The way the drum is playing, I'd put it in 6/8.
I can't use YouTube right now, but all you have to do is couting the beats.
If there are three beats then it is in 3/4! If there are two beats with tuplet eights, then it is in 6/8.
I see you are discussing how the drum and the guitar makes you think it is in 6/8, but how the syncopations are accentuated has nothing to do with time signature, if that is what you are talking about.
Quote from: Ricky on April 10, 2013, 09:36:14 PMWell, I'm not that good at figuring out time signatures so could ask for a little help.
Is that in 3/4? Well, the way I'm thinking is that the guitar part goes like 1&2&3&, 1&2&3& and so on. If that's the case then the drum heard at least at the start seems to go slightly later than the the "and" after 3 or is possibly played at the "and".
3/4
Quote from: Dudeman on April 10, 2013, 09:48:12 PMThe song appears to be in some sort of derivative of 3/4. The way the drum is playing, I'd put it in 6/8.
How 'bout both? 9/8! :P
^Unfortunately, 9/8 wouldn't work well here XD
I would go for 3/4 myself.
Then 3/4 it probably is. Thanks for the help!
Ok, so... this song has been giving me troubles forever:
I originally though it was 4/4, then settled on 6/8. Now, hoever, after practicing a bit, it feels like the intro is 6/8 and the chorus is 4/4.
The song part of the song sounds 4/4?
3rd part is a repeat.
No idea about the 4th part, haven't looked at it.
So, am I on the right track or completely off?
Oh, and just to get this out of the way now:
Lol, I have abosultely no idea what this is.
Phenac City is in 4/4, with the harp notes being eighth note tuplets.
Quote from: SlowPokemon on May 03, 2013, 05:55:19 PMPhenac City is in 4/4, with the harp notes being eighth note tuplets.
Oh, thanks! I had it in 6/8 with tuplet eight notes (don't ask me how that works.)
Quote from: SlowPokemon on May 03, 2013, 05:55:19 PMPhenac City is in 4/4, with the harp notes being eighth note tuplets.
This is right, but FireArrow, you could actually use 6/8 for this - actually I would prefer either that, or 12/8.
And the "song part" is definitely in 4/4.
Outer Space is in 12/8.
4/4 with triplets, 6/8 and 12/8 are far from the same even if they can sound quite similar. With 4/4 you have four quarter note beats and the pattern goes (S=Strong, M=Medium, w=weak): SwMw. When it's 6/8 you have 6 eight note beats and the pattern is: SwwMww. When it's 12/8 it's 12 eight note beats. It's something like SwwMwwMwwMww. That is at least if I have understood it right. I blame it on Lypur (Andrew Furmanczyk) otherwise. But either way it all depends on the context and 4/4 with triplets can be seen as equal to 12/8 sometimes.
They all work fine.
It's just that when the harp constantly moves in tuplets, it's gonna look a whole lot more elegant in 12/8 (the beat pattern is the same as with 4/4, just with the tuplet eights).
Quote from: Jompa on May 04, 2013, 03:39:57 AMThey all work fine.
It's just that when the harp constantly moves in tuplets, it's gonna look a whole lot more elegant in 12/8 (the beat pattern is the same as with 4/4, just with the tuplet eights).
This is also fine. I think 4/4 with tuplets could look just as good,. You could even begin in 6/8 and then switch the time signature later (though I don't recommend this, it might look awkward).
Hmm, I'll try both and just see which one looks better. Thanks a ton guys!
This should be really easy to recognize, but for some reason it isn't. I could have sworn it's 12/8, but the right hand comes in and screws everything up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCZkeg7a6Wg
That should be notated in 4/4, with the left hand part (or rythm part, or whatever you call that in english) just being notated in 8th tuplets.
Even though the right hand comes in on the fourth beat?
Well, I don't think it does. I think the right hand part starts at the second beat of measure#1.
^But even if that is just me, and it really does start on the fourth beat, then it would still be in 4/4 with tuplet eights in the left hand, just that a time change probably would do:P
Here, I worked it out:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/research%20lab.mus
Lol here is my sad attempt currently
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1192.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa326%2Fspitllama1%2FPianoSnip_zpsb9b39442.png&hash=38981d4e2881d76b663beba9d125213138db0f1e) (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/spitllama1/media/PianoSnip_zpsb9b39442.png.html)
You did a sort of pick-up, which makes more sense. I'm going to have to sacrifice one of those voices for 2 hands.
Thank you Jompa.
No problem!
It was kinda didicult ro hear where the beat was, but when I understood that the tuplets went A-B-E instead of E-A-B, it made sense.
Quote from: SlowPokemon on April 08, 2013, 06:24:31 PMI believe "Eterna Forest" from Pokemon Diamond and Pearl is in 5/8
^I know this is old, but I kinda reacted to this:P
Eterna Forest is just in 4/4, not any fancy stuff there. I think you just got the beat wrong, like I first did:)
Does this song have a time signature change?EDIT: Nevermind it's all in 4/4
yep :)
Key signature please.
EDIT: Never mind. It's in C minor.
It is in C minor for about four measures...
This is a song that modulates like crazy, so one key signature isn't enough.
Here:
It starts off in Eb minor.
At 0:14 it goes into F minor.
At 0:23 it goes into G minor.
At 0:41 it goes into C minor.
At 0:46 it goes into F minor.
It repeats at 1:10 back to where it changed into F minor at 0:14.
Quote from: Jompa on May 31, 2013, 01:08:27 PMIt is in C minor for about four measures...
This is a song that modulates like crazy, so one key signature isn't enough.
Here:
It starts off in Eb minor.
At 0:14 it goes into F minor.
At 0:23 it goes into G minor.
At 0:41 it goes into C minor.
At 0:46 it goes into F minor.
It repeats at 1:10 back to where it changed into F minor at 0:14.
Just came to that same conclusion and I was gonna post here with that but you beat me to it. :P Thanks!
Can somebody tell me what time signature this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IV-lqEv1do&list=PLNUOnQCufDjpnCmUYMtviR_5hOirlZ0qM&index=15) is in?
4/4
It just lands on the off beat a lot. Don't let it throw you off.
That's what I thought, I just wasn't quite sure. Thanks. (:
I think it's in A minor, but I've never had so much trouble figuring out notes before. Is in a different mode? The scale doesn't sound very minor.
Oh, and just to double check, it's in 6/8 not 12/8?
It's A minor. Which of the two time signatures doesn't really matter, but I'd go with 12/8.
Quote from: Jompa on June 17, 2013, 11:00:17 PMIt's A minor. Which of the two time signatures doesn't really matter, but I'd go with 12/8.
Oh, OK. Thanks!
Oh, and the stupid C# was throwing me off, it makes sense now.
2/4 - F Major
Someone double check me.
EDIT: 4/4, it would probably be better to notate the L.H. as quarter notes?
Double edit: Derp - 4/4 left hand is eighth notes, you don't need a new measure for every chord. :P
FireArrow is right - 4/4 F major
Would you guys justify the use of 8/4 time signature for a bass line that uses 16 eighth notes for each phrase? They go in a 3+3+3+3+4 fashion (4 groups of 3 eighth notes and 1 group of 4 eighth notes).
That shouldn't affect the time signature, though?
If the song itself is in 8/4 (the beats are quarters and there are eight of them per measure) then of course.
But if the song is in 3+3+3+3+4 -> that the beats of the song are at these specific times (And I am not talking about where the bass line is "stressed" - I mean where the beats of the song are.) -> then the song is in that time signature (9/16+4/16 or something like that), and not in 8/4. That goes for the bass and all other instruments of course.
How about this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1EPegIzD2M) song?
2/4
No idea on the key signature.
Thank you Jompa
For tempo just use a metronome.
It is in minor with loads of raised sevenths - you can find the pitch with finale or a piano.
Time signature is 4/4.
Unless my recorder is out of pitch, it's in E minor.
As for time signature: I would put 3/4, but a lot of people would use 6/8. So just choose:)
6/8 makes more sense to me, but Jompa knows what he's talking about. Anyways, that's a really beautiful song, can't wait to see it finished!
I'd say definitely 3/4 time, not 6/8, and it is E minor.
Quote from: SlowPokemon on July 09, 2013, 08:42:47 AMI'd say definitely 3/4 time, not 6/8, and it is E minor.
Definitely? I can see how it's in 3/4 in the beginning, but does it switch to 6/8 at 0:13 or something? (I know it doesn't, I'd just like to know why.)
You could theoretically put it in 6/8, but it's a very fast waltz tempo, not a slower 6/8 deal. See how it goes 1-2-3 1-2-3? It's very fast, but it is indeed waltz tempo, which is usually 3/4.
I completely disagree, Slow. I think it's 6/8, since I hear 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 and the beats are definitely on 1 and 3. Although I guess it comes down to personal taste and since I detest fast waltzes... Of course, you could just put it in 6/4 or 12/8 just to shit us all :P
Bah I hate using this thread. But lately it feels like any arranging skills I had before are slowly degrading...
I honestly think this is D minor (I've got the time sig)
Quote from: SlowPokemon on July 09, 2013, 09:55:03 AMYou could theoretically put it in 6/8, but it's a very fast waltz tempo, not a slower 6/8 deal. See how it goes 1-2-3 1-2-3? It's very fast, but it is indeed waltz tempo, which is usually 3/4.
Yes, but I hear it as triplets, so wouldn't that makes it /8?
Quote from: Clanker37 on July 09, 2013, 10:14:58 AMI completely disagree, Slow. I think it's 6/8, since I hear 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 and the beats are definitely on 1 and 3. Although I guess it comes down to personal taste and since I detest fast waltzes... Of course, you could just put it in 6/4 or 12/8 just to shit us all :P
You know, if the beats are at 1 and 3 then it's not 6/8. 6/8 is when the beats are at 1 and 4, but that's probably what you meant.
Actually though, I think you misunderstood Slow and me: you see, we treated your eights as quarters, making half a measure of your 6/8 a measure of 3/4 to us. And that really shouldn't cause trouble with the arrangement, neither is it wrong. Which is why I said one could just choose (you'd have to double the note durations in 3/4 though. I probably should have said that..).
oh god have i started another flame war
It's not really a flame war. :P
Musicians just take their meters very seriously.
Anyone have time to check Darknut?
Quote from: Jompa on July 09, 2013, 03:03:40 PMYou know, if the beats are at 1 and 3 then it's not 6/8. 6/8 is when the beats are at 1 and 4, but that's probably what you meant.
Yeah, lol. I suck at maths.
Quote from: Jompa on July 09, 2013, 03:03:40 PMActually though, I think you misunderstood Slow and me: you see, we treated your eights as quarters, making half a measure of your 6/8 a measure of 3/4 to us. And that really shouldn't cause trouble with the arrangement, neither is it wrong. Which is why I said one could just choose (you'd have to double the note durations in 3/4 though. I probably should have said that..).
I know that! I was just expressing my opinion that 6/8 is better than 3/4 for this song. Neither are wrong, but I would arrange it in 6/8. It's just a personal preference.
Not really a flame war, Yugi..
Quote from: spitllama on July 09, 2013, 08:19:11 PMAnyone have time to check Darknut?
I tried doing it on the beach of Italy with an out of pitch recorder, and I believe you are right.
xD thanks much
I agree with Slow and Jompa, that's 3/4. And E minor.
And Spit, the song is so bizarre and chromatic I'd barely even say minor, but its root is D.
Quote from: TheZeldaPianist275 on July 15, 2013, 02:42:24 PMAnd Spit, the song is so bizarre and chromatic I'd barely even say minor, but its root is D.
That's not really true.. :/ it
is D minor
Actually, listening to it again it's D minor XD sorry
Can anyone tell me what the key signature of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPA-zffuD2c) is? It's giving me an unusual amount of trouble...
It's in B
C minor 4/4
Starts off in A minor, 12/8 (or 6/8 I guess, if you really want)
EDIT: there are a lot of time signature changes in here, so I'll provide an outline.
Double time at 20 seconds in.
Switches to 6/4 at 38 seconds
Switches back to 12/8 at 1:13
Switches to a fast 3/4 at 1:30
Switches to 12/8 at 1:43
Switches to 4/4 at 2:25
Switches to 12/8 at 2:38
There's probably a short transition or two that I left out, but that's the jist of it.
I'm too lazy to look at key modulations, though :P
I'd do as FierceDeity says, but I would use 6/8 instead of 12/8 in the beginning, because if you listen to it, I think it's pretty obvious that the stress on the beats indicates that each measure only has two beats -> 6/8.
And for the Dark Pit Theme part (where FierceDeity said to use 4/4), I'd recommend using 2/2 (cut time) (with underlying eights), or 2/4 (with underlying sixteenths) - for the same reasons as above actually - there are only two beats per measure anyhow you look at it, so using 4/4 (both with underlying sixteenths, and underlying eights in a fast tempo) is kinda like using 16/4 or 64/4 - they all go up in four, but the first beats are on every second beat, meaning 2/2 or 2/4.
I agree with the cut time, actually. I was thinking about that before, but for some reason decided against it.
As for the beginning, are you sure? There may only be two beats stressed, but they're beats 1 and 3 (if, you know, a beat is a dotted quarter) of a 12/8 bar. In the main melody, for example, the C and B leading down to the A would be the 5th and 6th eighth notes of the bar, and then the 11th and 12th. Either way, if it's in 6/8, it's still in 2-bar groupings. I don't have too much of a preference for either one, just saying that 12/8 is reasonable.
EDIT: Oh wait, are you thinking of it as half the speed that I'm thinking of it as? Because I'm saying 12/8 at like dotted quarter note = 142 or so.
I feel like that speed makes more sense, because while 6/8 at half tempo technically works, it feels a little weird to use sixteenth notes as the base rhythm in compound time, not to mention you're gonna run into some weird duple stuff.
Quote from: FierceDeity on September 23, 2013, 10:11:10 AMOh wait, are you thinking of it as half the speed that I'm thinking of it as? Because I'm saying 12/8 at like dotted quarter note = 142 or so.
No, I mean, it should be the same speed, but the measures aren't four beats long, they're two beats long. That's what I'm saying. 6/8 at 142 bpm.
It isn't only because of the stressed beats thing (because this is not as strict),
but
mainly because the
musical phrasing in this case is 6/8 - there's definitely no doubt about that - in contrast to the later pieces in this medley that use 12/8.
I'd go as far as saying that 12/8 is wrong in this case (that's just me though) - it will definitely be inelegant.
Ah, ok. Yeah, that makes sense.
I'm not sure if this is time signature, but for the song, "Minor Circuit," (http://dl1.ffshrine.org/soundtracks/dl/1809/755115/Super%20Punch-Out!!%20Original%20Game%20Rip/12_-_minor_circuit_bout.mp3) from Super Punch Out, I am not sure where beat 1 is and or if it changes. Here is what I have made so far: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nzjxae2njapxu0s/Minor%20Circuit-Incomplete.pdf
I thought it was an 8th note followed by 6 16th notes starting the first (full) measure, but as I listened, around measures 8 and 9, I got really confused and pulled everything back a sixteenth note, but again going through it, that didn't sound right either. If you can tell where each beat is, help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Shaletome
It's in 4/4 yes, but the entire arrangement is one sixteenth ahead of what it should be, so just adjust everything according to that
You mean that it should be https://www.dropbox.com/s/zf4pyy966tswey1/Minor%20Circuit%3E-Incomplete.pdf like I had before I put it back a beat and the snare drum backbeat is on the fourth 16th note in every beat? You think the drums just play a normal beat one 16th note off?
You shouldn't think of it as "a sixteenth off". The song is like that, so nothing is really off with it. The snare notes are just placed on syncopations.
The snare drum doesn't really affect the time signature anyway, and vice versa. I mean, why would they even? What matters is the pulse! You could say it's the feeling of the beats. If the snare notes don't follow the beats exactly, then that's their own thing, it is not the pulse that is wrong. Rule: If it doesn't affect the feeling, then it doesn't affect the time sig.
Nothing wrong with having the snare drum on whatever piece of the measure, really - and it's not even that un-normal for it to be on whatever syncopation.
Yes, that last version is the right one.
I want to suggest that you double all note values, and double the speed (could be solved with alla breve) - the way you have it now, you kinda have all measures split into two - idk how to explain that very well, but it has to do with phrasing - it'd be better if the measures were halved basically, and the best way to do that is to double the note values (rather than changing it into 4/8 or 2/4 (which could also be done btw, if you wan't to save yourself a lot of work)).
Now it's like you have two "intended" measures in one of your measures.
I know it is 4/4 up to 0:19 then what??
Here is what I think. It is 4/4 upt 0:19, then 3/4 for a couple bars, then 5/4 for one bar, then I cant figure it out from there on out
PLEASE correct me if I am wrong
Psst, MLF, you forgot something ;)
Unlike the last one you were asking about, this one can actually just be all in 4/4. The accent pattern "
1 2 3
4 1 2
3 4" is a totally acceptable syncopation in 4/4, especially when it starts itself back up again on beat 1 of the next measure like it does here. That's actually a rhythmic motif in this piece. At the beginning, it follows the form of "dotted quarter note, dotted quarter note, quarter note"; in the section you're concerned with, it's the same thing, just with double the note lengths, i.e. "dotted half note, dotted half note, half note".
Lemme know if you need more explanation as to why, but yeah, it's all in 4/4.
I knew I forgot something :)
Thank you very much.
I think I understand what you are saying
Glad I could help :)
I need this question answered ASAP: How do you know when to put a sharp or a flat?
I am working on Overthere Stair and Fort Francis from Super Paper Mario and they have an evil amount of accidentals. I am always being asked to change from flat to sharp or sharp to flat in a lot of my songs. So, I would like to learn how to do that...
I think I'm finally capable of answering that. :)
1. Look at the harmony and analyze the chord (use an F# instead of a Gb if it's a D chord.)
2. Look at the motion of the melody. If it's going upward, use sharps, if it's moving downward, use flats.
3. If all else fails, just make it easier to read.
If you post a mus I could give you more specific help.
Thank You very much Firearrow :) If I need help, Ill pm you
What key is this song in (I think I know, I just want to make sure)?
Before I, or someone else, tells you what it is, let me ask you:
mlf, do you know the simple method of finding the key signature? Because if you just learn it you won't ever have to ask again.
well...um.....no
Tell us :D :D :D
I can't remember it...
iirc, there's two. One is to listen until you hear a note that sounds like the tonic, and then figure that out (thus finding your key.) Some random trick I found on youtube is to just hum a random note while listening to the song, and supposedly, it'll always be the tonic, dominant, and sometimes the mediant.
Personally, I just figure the song out on a piano until the key signature becomes apparent, that way I've already got a head start when I open up finale.
The "tonic" is that ONE tone that is the tonal center of any song.
When listening to a song, and therefore using it as reference, anyone can find the tonal center of the song without any trouble at all - this isn't even music theory. All you have to do is to hear that one tone that it all lands on (hard to explain but you should get what I mean really).
so you've found the note; after that you have to use a pitched instrument, like a piano or a saxophone or Finale for that matter and basically "compare" to a pitched note, so you can find out what the note that you found to be the tonic is. It's like algebra where you only have twelve possibilitys, making it easy to try and fail untill you get it right.
And there you have the tonic.
Wether it is minor or major is also something to listen for, but that's not hard either, just requires a slightly experienced ear.
So if you know the tonic and the tonal "gender" (minor or major), you just connect those two together and you have the key signature right there.
It's easier than it sounds - as I tried to get into; it's barely even music theory at this point - it's better described as just natural.
Quote from: FireArrow on January 01, 2014, 03:32:47 PMOne is to listen until you hear a note that sounds like the tonic, and then figure that out (thus finding your key.)
^Exactly right method.
now try it, mlf!
ok....I guess
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1aoq7hby7y64cj2/18.%20I%27ll%20Face%20Myself.mp3
Key/Time Sig
No, there's actually like a way to look at the key and figure out what it's in... I just can't remember. It's something like for flats take the second to last flat in the signature and for sharps the second or something...
Haha, I'm pretty sure that's like, a level or two (or three or four) before what we're talking about here. You're talking about how to determine the key based on the number of flats out sharps in the key signature, which, in this setting, would mean you already know everything about the key except for the explicit letter name, which, at that point, is kind of irrelevant. However, if you do want to know those two rules (or, at least, the two I'm familiar with) for determining the letter name of the key signature based on the number of sharps or flats, here they are (for major keys).
Flats: The tonic (first note of the major scale) is the second to last flatted note in the key signature (order of flats = Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb, Fb, or the circle of fourths starting on Bb). So I guess you could also define the letter name as "a perfect fifth above the last flatted note in the key signature".
Sharps: The tonic is a half step above the last sharped note in the key signature (order of sharps: F#, C#, G#, D#, A#, E#, B#). In other words, the last sharp in the key is the seventh scale degree, or leading tone, of the scale.
As for being able to determine the key signature, I feel like at a certain level (or maybe not, I never actually started transcribing until I'd already had a decent amount of theory knowledge and ear training, so I've always kinda done this), it doesn't have to be so abstract as "hum what you think is the tonic" (although, still kinda abstract). The first thing I do when I listen to a piece is I determine what the intervals in the melody are. Then, I see how those intervals conform to a major or minor scale (i.e. where are the half steps, how are the chord tones (1, 3, 5) emphasized, and whatnot). From there, I determine the tonic, and then I already have the intervals figured out, so once I check that note with a reference pitch, I already have the intervals sorted out, and at least the beginning of the melody/whatever line I'm working on is already finished.
...Okay, after typing that out, that sounds overly complicated. But it works for me, haha.
Quote from: FierceDeity on January 02, 2014, 07:00:34 AMThe first thing I do when I listen to a piece is I determine what the intervals in the melody are. Then, I see how those intervals conform to a major or minor scale (i.e. where are the half steps, how are the chord tones (1, 3, 5) emphasized, and whatnot). From there, I determine the tonic, and then I already have the intervals figured out, so once I check that note with a reference pitch, I already have the intervals sorted out, and at least the beginning of the melody/whatever line I'm working on is already finished.
But essentially, this isn't much different from whatever you were saying was too abstract.
You are definitely making it somewhat more complicated - humming the tonic is much easier than what is expected. You don't need music theory, or a very good ear to do it.
And the only thing you're doing different there seems to be to "postpone" finding the key until you have all the intervals down, but either way when arranging it's the intervals that we're listening to, right? So by finding the tonic first, which is extremely easy without reading too much into the chord notes (yes, it really is A LOT easier than it sounds), it's easier to arrange as you now have a starting point for the intervals.
A great thing about what you're saying though, is that many people aren't as comfortable with intervals in each and every key, so it's good to kinda be able to think out of lets say C major, before having to note it all down in lets say Ab major.
But doing what you're doing is great, because that way you can (more) easily play that song in any key and on any instrument and on any occasion, as long as you can hum the melody in your head.
Music wouldn't be any fun unless you could do just that!
------------
So anyways, MLF & Yugi, what's keeping ya? Those songs have extremely definable tonics - here we have provided the recipe which explains you how to find this kinda stuff in less than a minute. Musicians should know how to do this.
And learn the "circle of fifths" Nocturneofshadow! It's an important thing to know.
Listen for a resolution / cadence. If the resolution feels "strong", it's most likely resolving to the home key.
Quote from: FierceDeity on January 02, 2014, 07:00:34 AMHaha, I'm pretty sure that's like, a level or two (or three or four) before what we're talking about here. You're talking about how to determine the key based on the number of flats out sharps in the key signature, which, in this setting, would mean you already know everything about the key except for the explicit letter name, which, at that point, is kind of irrelevant. However, if you do want to know those two rules (or, at least, the two I'm familiar with) for determining the letter name of the key signature based on the number of sharps or flats, here they are (for major keys).
Flats: The tonic (first note of the major scale) is the second to last flatted note in the key signature (order of flats = Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb, Fb, or the circle of fourths starting on Bb). So I guess you could also define the letter name as "a perfect fifth above the last flatted note in the key signature".
Sharps: The tonic is a half step above the last sharped note in the key signature (order of sharps: F#, C#, G#, D#, A#, E#, B#). In other words, the last sharp in the key is the seventh scale degree, or leading tone, of the scale.
As for being able to determine the key signature, I feel like at a certain level (or maybe not, I never actually started transcribing until I'd already had a decent amount of theory knowledge and ear training, so I've always kinda done this), it doesn't have to be so abstract as "hum what you think is the tonic" (although, still kinda abstract). The first thing I do when I listen to a piece is I determine what the intervals in the melody are. Then, I see how those intervals conform to a major or minor scale (i.e. where are the half steps, how are the chord tones (1, 3, 5) emphasized, and whatnot). From there, I determine the tonic, and then I already have the intervals figured out, so once I check that note with a reference pitch, I already have the intervals sorted out, and at least the beginning of the melody/whatever line I'm working on is already finished.
...Okay, after typing that out, that sounds overly complicated. But it works for me, haha.
Yeah this is what I meant! You don't have to play through anything just look at the signature and you know.
Jompa what makes you think I don't know circle of 5ths? I don't quite understand where you're coming from with that...
Quote from: mariolegofan on January 02, 2014, 11:14:44 AMC Minor??
Yes.
@Nocturne, we're talking about finding the key signature of a song with your only reference being listening to it.
Good :)
Hopefully I wont have to ask again :)
Quote from: Yugi on January 01, 2014, 11:43:59 PMhttps://www.dropbox.com/s/1aoq7hby7y64cj2/18.%20I%27ll%20Face%20Myself.mp3
Key/Time Sig
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on January 02, 2014, 11:52:36 AMYeah this is what I meant! You don't have to play through anything just look at the signature and you know.
Jompa what makes you think I don't know circle of 5ths? I don't quite understand where you're coming from with that...
But we don't know the signature... We aren't talking about how to identify the tonic out of looking at the key, we are talking about finding it through listening.
And you obviously don't know the circle of fifths as you said you didn't "remember" how to identify the tonic out of the signature..
It's the parallell key to the one mlf asked about.
So Eb Major?
Also, what would the time signature be?
Actually, C minor is better to say, as that's what the whole piece starts in kinda, but it's the same thing really.
Time signature is just 4/4
Quote from: Jompa on January 02, 2014, 02:29:17 PMBut we don't know the signature... We aren't talking about how to identify the tonic out of looking at the key, we are talking about finding it through listening.
And you obviously don't know the circle of fifths as you said you didn't "remember" how to identify the tonic out of the signature..
What I meant was the second to last flat thing. The pneumonic device for the circle of fifths isn't hard to remember :)
At 0:22, does it change to 4/4 and then change back to 3/4 at 0:28??
this song:
Quote from: mariolegofan on January 03, 2014, 10:48:46 AMAt 0:22, does it change to 4/4 and then change back to 3/4 at 0:28??
this song:
Yep.
thats what I thought and thanks :)
The time sig. is kinda tricky (stupid ::)) in this song
9/8?? 4/4??
9/8
Thats what I thought :)
This will be an interesting song to arrange.
you shouldn't use 9/8 here. It's not wrong, but it makes it overly complicated for an extremely simple song. Do it in 3/4 with swing instead!
Holy...
Too late...
Im almost done
Idk, I don't think it's in bad judgement to do 9/8 here. There are a lot of triplet figures that couldn't just be written as swung eighth notes. As long as it's notated correctly, it really shouldn't be any more difficult to read.
Well...check it out. Its on my page :)
Just messaged you with my feedback, haha
Thanks
I wanna make sure BEFORE I start it
4/4...12/8? What would you do?
I'd probably go with 4/4 for this one. It's a lot more swing-based than it is triplet-based (if that makes sense), in comparison to the last one.
Ok :) (sorry for bothering everyone with all these questions)
No problem haha, that's what this thread is for :P
Okay sorry for disagreeing ;) but I definitely feel a triplet pulse in there. :/
Sorry for the offense but I think Fierce would know way more than you. Mor arrangments and all
Quote from: mariolegofan on January 15, 2014, 07:33:32 PMSorry for the offense but I think Fierce would know way more than you. Mor arrangments and all
Again, (no offense to you FD), quantity =/= quality.
None taken, haha. While I like to think I've improved a lot through my time arranging here at NSM (and my first semester studying music at college :P) there are still many people on here who are more experienced than I am, and I still have a lot to learn. Besides, this is more of a subjective disagreement, anyways, as either time signature could technically work. (Still, thanks for backing me up, MLF :P)
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on January 15, 2014, 07:08:10 PMOkay sorry for disagreeing ;) but I definitely feel a triplet pulse in there. :/
I mean, there is, but it's not nearly as strong, seeing as it isn't prevalent in a majority of the measures. The overriding feel, to me, seems to be swung eighth notes; the only triplet rhythms other than swung eighths seem to be in the percussion (which may or may not end up in the arrangement), and those are just plain triplets, put in amongst/stressing swung eighths, in instruments that imply a jazz feel. Again, it can easily work either way, but that's my take on it.
I was gonna post something but then I saw the paragraph above me which pretty much says everything. Swing is more of a stylistic thing related to jazz. Eg much of Banjo-Kazooie has what may be called swing rhythms but stylistically you wouldn't refer to it as swing. Just like the track above has a bit of a shuffle thing going so you wouldn't call it 12/8.
Another question ::)
How do you make finale play a trill a whole step down instead of a half step up??
Write the note that the trill is on as the lower note perhaps? Eg if you want a trill from B-A write the trill on the A, and if you want it to start on the B, put grace note just before.
Its in this song at 0:03 and 0:04
Quote from: DekuTrombonist on January 16, 2014, 06:25:27 PMWrite the note that the trill is on as the lower note perhaps? Eg if you want a trill from B-A write the trill on the A, and if you want it to start on the B, put grace note just before.
Oh....Thanks!
I need this answered as quick as possible: What is the key in this song?
Just from listening to it with a reference pitch, I'd say it's probably C minor, assuming that the melody is "G, F# G Eb C G, F#"
Quote from: FierceDeity on January 19, 2014, 04:46:26 PMJust from listening to it with a reference pitch, I'd say it's probably C minor, assuming that the melody is "G, F# G Eb C G, F#"
Jompa? :P
He's correct, it's in C Minor.
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on January 19, 2014, 05:18:18 PMJompa? :P
I think FierceDeity is right 99.999999999999999999% of the time
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fth08.deviantart.net%2Ffs70%2FPRE%2Ff%2F2011%2F288%2F7%2F7%2Foh__stop_it__you__by_rober_raik-d4cwd9f.png&hash=f2952270841fd3abb047a35391b6e951bc653198)
Curse you for making me use this image twice in one day, haha. And I mean, Jompa has definitely had to correct me on multiple occasions, so I wouldn't exactly say I'm infallible :P
ok then :)
At your service
Time signature?
I was pretty sure this switches between 2 and 3 beats every measure, but when I started working on it, the 3 beat measure was too slow and I couldn't make the syncopation work in the 2 beat measure.
6/8 with a bit of syncopation in the beginning. Take that with a grain of salt though.
Quote from: FireArrow on January 23, 2014, 09:32:46 PM6/8 with a bit of syncopation in the beginning. Take that with a grain of salt though.
I got 6/8 too.
Thank you! I started with a pickup as well, is that incorrect?
For that little blurp of a note at the beginning? Yeah, I think so.
What is the timing in these songs?
4/4?
3/4?
You're right!
5 A.M. - 4/4
6 A.M. - 3/4
Ok :)
I wanted to do "Rosalina in the Observatory" from Super Mario Galaxy but what version do I do. There is 3
I was thinking of 2....
2 sounds good. It's in 3/4 and in the key of A Major
Thanks but I already knew that :)
lol. You told me ahead time though :)
Oh I'm sorry! I didn't mean to patronize you. I just figured since the name of the thread is "what key and time signature is this piece in" you needed to know.
Quote from: SlowPokemon on January 31, 2014, 04:51:55 PMI just figured since the name of the thread is "what key and time signature is this piece in" you needed to know.
sometimes I wish this forum had Like buttons on posts, because I don't really have anything to add, but I was thinking the same thing :P
Haha yeah. I wasn't being sarcastic, I seriously thought he needed them since it was in this thread :P
Im not sure where to post a question that doesnt include key or time sig.....so Ill post it here. How do I make a parenthesis around a sharp or flat on a note.
you press "p" when a note is highlighted, and it's accidental will become visible and parenthesized. If you press "p" again the accidental will remain visible, but not parenthesized. To make the accidental invisible again after this, you'll have to press "ctrl" "shift" "+", which is a bit stupid...
Haha Ok :)
Im actually doing "Clouds over Flower Fields (Replacement)'' from Paper Mario.
Ab major
I think it might be Eb major. :P
First note of melody: Ab
First offbeat: C and Eb
Ab C Eb = Ab major chord
C raises up a half step, Db is clearly in key signature
Q.E.D. the piece is in Ab major
...unless my tuner is wayyyy off lol nevermind I used finale playback for the starting pitch, so...unless finale playback is like a fifth off...
Thanks :)
FierceDeity is right. The key is A-flat Major.
You noobs, it modulates: starts off in Ab - then Eb for a while - then back again on repeat.
ugh but jompa you can't expect me to listen to more than 20 seconds of it, that's way too much work
yeah, true. I don't normally do that either. I just wanted to check out why zoroark said it was in Eb, which is kinda justified now that we know it modulates.
C Minor?
And what bass would you use (link below), bar 3, 4, or 5?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nk6gztujv1grnu9/Dreamland.mus
Yes, it's C-minor.
And I would use the bar 3 figure but with the low bass notes an octave up.
Quote from: Jompa on February 27, 2014, 01:08:16 PMYes, it's C-minor.
And I would use the bar 3 figure but with the low bass notes an octave up.
Ok :) That should be easier the player
I think you know the drill by now.
Bb-minor and D-minor.
Hey, guys!
Okay, So I've started working on The Legendary Hero (The Opening) Of Wind Waker. As you have guessed, I can't figure out the key signature. Will you guys help me please?
Thanks!
Might wanna put up a youtube link, haha
I have an mp3 of it, but i can't figure out how to post that on here... wow, I must be tired :/
Quote from: MindaWolf on March 05, 2014, 07:37:33 PMI have an mp3 of it, but i can't figure out how to post that on here... wow, I must be tired :/
www.youtube.com
"wind waker intro theme"
enter
click video
copy url
paste
http://www.tubeofmusic.com/?v=KvwNvKZbQZA
Just go there. My parents decided that I can't go on youtube anymore. Yay...
4/4, A minor. (some parts feel a bit 2/4, but I don't feel like putting much thought into it.)
Quote from: MindaWolf on March 05, 2014, 08:26:27 PMMy parents decided that I can't go on youtube anymore. Yay...
Im not allowed to be on Ninsheetmusic :-X
Quote from: mariolegofan on March 06, 2014, 06:14:33 AMIm not allowed to be on Ninsheetmusic :-X
I'm not allowed on a social sites because of my grades and emotional standing...
Quote from: FireArrow on March 05, 2014, 10:31:37 PM4/4, A minor. (some parts feel a bit 2/4, but I don't feel like putting much thought into it.)
Also, for the second measure, could you figure out that rhythm??? I can't figure out when that random note comes in before beat 2... unless it is beat 2.
Just in case the other song was not correct, heres a website.
downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/legend-of-zelda-takt-of-wind-original-sound-tracks (http://downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/legend-of-zelda-takt-of-wind-original-sound-tracks)
Download "The Legendary Hero" and voilá!
Once again, thanks guys!
Second measure: half rest - eights rest - two tied eights - quarter? If doesn't work can I see your mus file?
Edit: Make sure you have the higher note in measure one on beat 3.
99% finished. Just waiting on a key sig.
A minor, the melody just revolves around e.
Thanks :) Thats exactly what I thought.
I should have it up within the the hour
Just need a Key sig....
And which one of these (http://www.treblis.com/notation/rit.html) would go nicely with this song?
C-minor
Thanks :)
And for....
Quote from: mariolegofan on March 07, 2014, 01:33:27 PMAnd which one of these (http://www.treblis.com/notation/rit.html) would go nicely with this song?
My recommendation: none. You don't always need an expressive marking, and none of them seem to fit anyways. I can't even describe it in English forget Italian.
Need a time sig for this.
Seems pretty much 6/8
C minor, but it does some crazy stuff in the middle so watch out
Ok thanks :)
I think this is in the key of A major (if not, than minor), but there are a lot of accidentals. But what key is it in. I think it might be 4/4, but it does some wierd stuff.
It starts out in A-minor, but around 00:50 it modulates into C-minor, and then of course back to A-minor on repeat at 01:50. Nothing wrong with some accidentals here and there.
The time signature in that weird section of the song changes every measure and alternates between 7/8 and 8/8 (4/4) - if you want to you can just use 15/8 - I'd probably do that.
Noooooooooooooooooooo! Finale notepad doesn't do 15/8. >:( I guess I'll choose a different song then....
nonono, you can ask someone to do it for you. Shouldn't be a problem
Quote from: Jompa on April 18, 2014, 11:17:25 AMnonono, you can ask someone to do it for you. Shouldn't be a problem
Wait, give me a blank sheet with the time signature, or arrange the song? Could you?
Go here: http://forum.ninsheetm.us/index.php?topic=685.0
Ask someone to change a specified section of the song into whatever you want it to be, and boom, problem solved.
I can't do it though, because I use an older version of Finale, so I can't even open your files.
Thanks. Will do.
F#-minor
3/4 in the beginning
but when the band joins it's in 4/4, but with occasional single measures of 1/4 it seems. I guess it is possible it's even more complicated than that, but if you're going to arrange it, then me finding it out for you isn't a good idea.
Below is the whole soundtrack
http://brawlcustommusic.com/game/8 (http://brawlcustommusic.com/game/8)
Im planning on doing the whole soundtrack from Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door by Christmas.
Just making sure Time Sig. are Correct :)
Key Sig.s are another story lol
Story of The Thousand Year Door Done by Spitllama
Peach & The Mysterious Map 4/4
Title Screen & Main Menu Done by Spitllama
Mario and Luigi's House 4/4
Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door 4/4
All Aboard
Chapter Opening 4/4
Rogueport Done by the Tadpole Guy (forget his name lol)
Danger! 4/4
Event Battle (Replacement) 4/4
Battle Won 4/4
Battle Won with Injured Partner 4/4
A New Partner Joins 4/4
Character Abilities 3/4
Professor Frankly's Theme 4/4
Training Battle 4/4
Rogueport Sewers (Replacement) 4/4? God help me when I do this one...
Battle Theme (Replacement) 4/4 Fierce might be doing this one.
Hall of the Thousand Year Door 4/4
Petal Meadow (Replacement) 4/4
Petalburg Done by Dekutrombonst
You got Mail! 4/4
Level Up! 4/4
The 65th Super Fun Quirk Quiz 4/4
Right! 4/4
Taking a Nap Done by Me
Hooktail Castle Appears 4/4
Hooktail Castle 4/4
Ms. Mowz's Theme 4/4
Boss - Hooktail 4/4
Reunion 4/4
Get the Crystal Star 4/4
Chapter Ending 4/4
Princess Peach's Theme 3/4
Peach Mail (Replacement) 4/4
Luigi's Story (Replacement) 4/4
Theme of the Punies 4/4
Boggly Woods 5/4
Theme of the Shadow Sirens 4/4
The Great Boggly Tree 4/4 This one I'll need help with the intro
Boss - The Shadow Sirens (Shadow Siren Scuffle) Done by Spitllama
Madame Flurrie's Theme 4/4
More Danger 4/4
Magnus von Grapple 4/4
Boss - Magnus von Grapple (Replacement) 4/4
TEC's Waltz 3/4
Bowser's Theme 4/4
Bowser's Quest World 1-1 4/4
Bowser's Quest - Invincible 4/4
Bowser's Quest - Lose Life 2/4
Bowser's Quest - Level Clear 4/4
Don Pianta's Theme 4/4
Mini Game 4/4
The Robbo Thieves 4/4
The Blimp Ride 4/4
Glitzville 2/4 or 4/4?
The Glitz Pit Done by The Deku Trombonist
Grubba's Theme 4/4
Glitz Pit Intro 4/4
Glitz Pit Outro 4/4
Paper Mario & The Giant Egg 4/4
X-Mail 4/4
Boss - Rawk Hawk 4/4
Treacherous Grubba 4/4
Boss - Macho Grubba 4/4
Ms. Jolene's Theme Done by Me
Twilight Town Done by Me
Twilight Trail 4/4
Creepy Steeple 4/4
Doopliss's Theme 4/4
Boss - Doopliss Done by Me
Bowser's Quest - 2-1 3/4
Cooking with Zess T. 4/4
Voyage 4/4
Pirate Ghosts Appear 4/4
Keelhaul Key 4/4
Pirate's Grotto 4/4
Boss - Cortez (Replacement) 4/4
Disk System Startup 4/4
Pit of 100 Trials 4/4
The Excess Express 4/4 One of my favorites :)
Pennington's Theme Done by Brassman
Dusk 4/4
Riverside Station 4/4
Boss - The Smorgs 4/4 Fun Battle :)
Poshley Heights Done by Spitllama
The Sactum 4/4
Bowser's Quest - World 3-1
Fahr Outpost I actually dont know
Shooting for the Stars 4/4
X-Naut Fortress (Replacement) 4/4
The Palace of Shadow .....
Tower of Riddles 4/4
Deep into the Shadows 4/4
Boss - Grodus 4/4
Boss - Bowser 4/4
Shadow Queen Awakens .....
Boss - Shadow Queen Part 1 (Peach Form) (Replacement) 4/4
We Believe in You Mario! Done by Me
Boss - Shadow Queen Part 2 Done by Me :)
Peach is Saved 3/4
Leaving Rogueport 4/4
Going Home 4/4
Shining Rogueport 4/4
Here we Go Again 4/4
Game Over 4/4
Staff Credits 4/4
Found a Badge 4/4
Found an Important 4/4
Get Important Item 4/4
Secret Revealed 4/4
Get Important Item 4/4
Please tell me if I'm wrong on any of them....
If you would like to do some of these, just tell me :)
Spitllama and maybe Bloop are doing some with me.
Um, I don't really want to go through and double check the entire soundtrack .-. but here's the intro to hooktail castle (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/8o1xq51ffc8zw5c/Hooktail%20Castle.mus?dl=1&token_hash=AAHVrcf6sHv3YvRqsy3lfNIwcNdug5QaSMhn8bRsQIqO1w&expiry=1399803306) if you want it.
Thats fine....didnt really expect anyone to check them all...lol.
Just want to know if Boggly Woods (5/4) and Glitzville (2/4) are right.
Thanks for the intro by the way. Did you start it and never finish it or...?
they are correct
Great :)
One of the 1st 5/4 songs I've ever heard
Quote from: mariolegofan on May 11, 2014, 06:26:32 PMGreat :)
One of the 1st 5/4 songs I've ever heard
You've heard of Mission: Impossible, right? That's pretty much the main 5/4 song. The other one is the theme from The Incredibles!
You really need to play/listen to more concert band music, MLF :P
Granted, this shifts meters a lot, but I mean, if you've never heard/played anything in 5/4 at all, that needs to change, yo
Quote from: FierceDeity on May 11, 2014, 06:55:10 PMYou really need to play/listen to more concert band music, MLF :P
Granted, this shifts meters a lot, but I mean, if you've never heard/played anything in 5/4 at all, that needs to change, yo
You're Right :)
I'm arranging the super metroid soundtrack (musical songs not on site) and need the time signatures and keys double checked
Crateria--space pirates emerge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKTBf5_T6LI&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index=6) 4/4, C minor
Brinstar--Overgrown with Vegetation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLcyg4Tq5uY&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index=6) 4/4, C minor
Spore Spawn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZwmwC9KkEQ&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index=14) 4/4 ? ? ? ? ? (completed)
Hostile Incoming (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5KJtpOqbVc&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index=32) (before boss) 4/4 C sharp minor?
Kraid/other bosses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aECNX-k-OV8&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index=16) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Theme of Samus Aran: Galactic Warrior (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lTWCkF8B3o) 4/4 Changes a lot, not sure what keys it's in
Mother Brain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwt740KznHE&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index=22) 7/8 ? ? ? ?
credits/ending (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWdRKZ6QgcU&index=25&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4) 4/4 starts in C# minor, but I think it changes.
Already did: Brinstar (Red Soil Area)
Spore Spawn: F# minor
Hostile Incoming: F# minor
Kraid/other bosses: 5/4 - E minor
Mother Brain: F# minor
Take the key signatures with a grain of salt, I didn't transcribe much notes.
Quote from: FireArrow on May 13, 2014, 03:50:01 PMSpore Spawn: F# minor
Hostile Incoming: F# minor
Kraid/other bosses: 5/4 - E minor
Mother Brain: F# minor
Take the key signatures with a grain of salt, I didn't transcribe much notes.
Is it fine to put them in G flat minor instead? For some reason, I find it easier to play.
Have you already started the Spore Spawn boss theme? I had an arrangement of that somewhere...
Also, why is Gb minor easier to read than F# minor? I'd much rather only read 3 sharps than 5 flats and 2 double flats d:
Um, no? Playing isn't any different and Gb minor is hell to sight read.
Woops, I was thinking of F# major. This makes it easier.
I'd say 3/4
Quote from: Clanker37 on June 05, 2014, 02:41:24 AMI'd say 3/4
Ditto
While I'm here, I do have a question about time signatures:
How can you tell the difference between 3/4 & 6/8 and 4/4 and 2/4?
Those are the only ones I have trouble recognizing the difference between.
Unlike 4/4 & 12/8 which I CAN tell the difference between :)
I'm pretty sure 4/4 has 4 discernable beats, while 2/4 only has 2.
And 3/4 has 3 beats while 6/8 can be divided into 2 equal parts.
And, Undersea Palace from chrono trigger is 6/8 right? I think I messed up and made the electronic part eigth notes instead of 16ths. That's going to be a pain to fix.
Quote from: maelstrom. on June 05, 2014, 06:29:22 AMI'm pretty sure 4/4 has 4 discernable beats, while 2/4 only has 2.
And 3/4 has 3 beats while 6/8 can be divided into 2 equal parts.
And, Undersea Palace from chrono trigger is 6/8 right? I think I messed up and made the electronic part eigth notes instead of 16ths. That's going to be a pain to fix.
I think I understand what your saying. Thanks :)
Think pulses and groupings. Beat 3 in 4/4 is weaker than beat 1. If you're having trouble telling the difference between 4/4 and 2/4, try conducting it in 4/4 and see if it feels weird. 3/4 and 6/8 is much more obvious. In terms of eighth notes, 3/4 has three groups of two while 6/8 has two groups of three. The beats in 3/4 are Strong-Weak-Weak, and in 6/8 they're Strong-Weak-Weak-Medium-Weak-Weak. Back to the conducting, 3/4 is a 3 pattern, and 6/8 is almost always a 2 pattern.
Anyway
The first measure is 7/8. Right now, what's bothering me is what would be the left hand in the first 30ish seconds. There are 8 eighth notes in every measure (with a triplet every other measure). The problem is the groupings. I kinda want to say 8/8 grouped 2+3+3, but that really doesn't fit the right hand. Then again, the right hand isn't consistent with the left anyway.
um, you shouldn't really be worrying about that grouping thing. The song is just 4/4, and in terms of grouping the eights it's just 2+2+2+2. Syncopated rhythms doesn't affect the meter. In stupid classical music it can, but that's wrong.
Only time signature changes are the one at about 1:00, which is just one measure that's 2/4,
and then right after that it goes a bit crazy into some 3/-signature, and melts over to the beginning again on repeat. To get this right it would take some analysis.
About the first measure:
Are you absolutely sure about 7/8?
Based on the beginning, I wouldn't put it as 7/8, but rather as 4/4 (like the rest of the song), but rather just start that sixteenth run after an eightnote rest. There's no right answer to that measure, because it doesn't establish a time before the A-part starts, so it's better to have it in 4/4 both for reading purposes, and for consistency with the rest of the arrangement.
Though this run comes back later before the repeat, so if you've already analyzed it and found that it has to be 7/8 then it's fine.
It just looks wrong on paper and the pulses don't match. Beh. I'll leave it unless I find that something is absolutely right.
When it repeats, there are actually 20 sixteenths instead of the 14 at the beginning, so I'll have to figure out how that works with the time sig before it.
Quote from: maelstrom. on June 05, 2014, 06:29:22 AMAnd, Undersea Palace from chrono trigger is 6/8 right? I think I messed up and made the electronic part eigth notes instead of 16ths. That's going to be a pain to fix.
Was I right? I don't want to have to change it back (or even change it in the first place: I'm halfway done.)
Need a Key Signature please :)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L6miLWHtUk
G major. It's got some mixolydian going on
Thanks :)
Quote from: Jompa on July 19, 2014, 04:10:41 PMG major. It's got some mixolydian going on
Is mixolydian...
Tonic whole whole half whole whole half whole?
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on July 20, 2014, 11:33:53 AMIs mixolydian...
Tonic whole whole half whole whole half whole?
Yeah... but that's probably not the best way to think about it.
Quote from: FireArrow on July 20, 2014, 11:51:04 AMYeah... but that's probably not the best way to think about it.
I think about it as G
Agreed, firearrow. There are two ways I think of modes:
1. By position on the ionian (i.e. major) scale. Dorian starts on the supertonic (2), phrygian starts on the mediant (3), lydian starts on the subdominant (4), mixolydian starts on the dominant (5), aeolian starts on the submediant (6), and locrian starts on the leading tone (7). So, want to play G mixolydian? Same notes as C major, starting on G. Want to play C# locrian? Same notes as D major, starting on C#. This is what I was told to be the "correct" way of thinking of it, because it considers the modes in context, but as long as you understand where they come from, I don't see the harm in using this next method for convenience:
2. By notes raised or lowered. Lydian has one note raised from major (4), mixolydian has one note lowered from major (7), dorian has two notes lowered (7, 3), aeolian has three notes lowered (7, 3, 6), phrygian has four notes lowered (7, 3, 6, 2), and locrian has five notes lowered (7, 3, 6, 2, 5). As long as you know why these notes are lowered (typically along with the order in which they are lowered), I see no problem doing it that way for quickness, especially considering what happens with writing key signature.
There are technically 2 options for writing key signature in modal music. You can write the key of the root "major" (i.e. C major for G mixolydian), or you can write in the closest related major or minor key of the same letter name (i.e. C major for C lydian and mixolydian, C natural minor for C dorian, phrygian, and locrian). According to my professors, both approaches are acceptable. However, what I see most frequently is the former, which I believe is what Jompa suggested. If you write the key signature in that way, then way #2 for thinking about modes is most convenient, as it tells you which notes to raise or lower with accidentals in relation to the major or minor key signature you've given it.
I swear this is what's gonna happen my first two years of college:
Professor: Your a very dedicated stupid, putting in the time to ace every test.
Me: Naw, I've just been reading Fierce and Jompa posts for 6 years.
Quote from: FireArrow on July 20, 2014, 02:09:29 PMProfessor: Your a very dedicated stupid
Yep. Every professor is like that.
Oh god spell correct on this phone...
Quote from: FierceDeity on July 20, 2014, 01:33:36 PM1. By position on the ionian (i.e. major) scale. Dorian starts on the supertonic (2), phrygian starts on the mediant (3), lydian starts on the subdominant (4), mixolydian starts on the dominant (5), aeolian starts on the submediant (6), and locrian starts on the leading tone (7). So, want to play G mixolydian? Same notes as C major, starting on G. Want to play C# locrian? Same notes as D major, starting on C#. This is what I was told to be the "correct" way of thinking of it, because it considers the modes in context, but as long as you understand where they come from, I don't see the harm in using this next method for convenience:
2. By notes raised or lowered. Lydian has one note raised from major (4), mixolydian has one note lowered from major (7), dorian has two notes lowered (7, 3), aeolian has three notes lowered (7, 3, 6), phrygian has four notes lowered (7, 3, 6, 2), and locrian has five notes lowered (7, 3, 6, 2, 5). As long as you know why these notes are lowered (typically along with the order in which they are lowered), I see no problem doing it that way for quickness, especially considering what happens with writing key signature.
There are technically 2 options for writing key signature in modal music. You can write the key of the root "major" (i.e. C major for G mixolydian), or you can write in the closest related major or minor key of the same letter name (i.e. C major for C lydian and mixolydian, C natural minor for C dorian, phrygian, and locrian). According to my professors, both approaches are acceptable. However, what I see most frequently is the former, which I believe is what Jompa suggested. If you write the key signature in that way, then way #2 for thinking about modes is most convenient, as it tells you which notes to raise or lower with accidentals in relation to the major or minor key signature you've given it.
I'm really sorry, but I disagree to most of this.
You seem to treat the modes like they've spawned (for lack of better word) from what you refer to as "the root", but that is not how to think of modes. If this was about
modal scales, then you would be on to something, but it sounds like you have mixed the two up, which is pretty understandable, and really common. (sorry if you haven't and I've misunderstood, but here comes an explanation anyways):
This is easy to mix up because the modes share the same names as their respective modal scales, and therefore it's easy to think they're the same sometimes, like: mixolydian is first and foremost simply a scale, but a song could be basing it's entire harmonic structure upon it, and in that case it would be in the
mixolydian mode.
But: if you were writing a song in C ionian and then suddenly the dominant chord G major popped up, and you wanted to write the scale that fits the key signature using G as a starting point, then yes, you would be writing the mixolydian
scale, but you can't say the song suddenly is in the mode of G mixolydian. It still is C ionian mode, because C is the tonal center, and the only thing that can change that is a modulation. Chord progression is not enough.
^This is sorta a reply to your #1 explanation, where you sound the most like you are mixing up the two.
Your #2 explanation makes the most sense out of your post, but it still seems you think of that "root" as the tonic.
The reason I bothered reacting to this is because this is actually pretty crucial when
arranging a song that uses modes - I wouldn't have heard straight away that that song was using mixolydian if I was thinking about it from a different "root" than what is actually the tonic. If that was how it worked modes wouldn't exist!
The reason you can even hear everything that is going on in the music is because everything is a specific interval away from a
tonal center (the tonic). So that's why we have to think about it from that tonic! It could even
change the mode in the song, without it having to count as a modulation at all, and then thinking about it from that "root"-thing would just be bad.
The right way to think about modes is to treat them like key signatures. (i'll come back to the notation of them though)
If a song is in G mixolydian then the tonal center is G major, and the underlying scale that will be used for at least the majority of the piece (unless it changes mode or modulates) will be the G mixolydian scale (G major scale with the minor seventh).
This has no relation to the C major scale in any way, and therefore it's G we should be/are thinking about when listening to/arranging/composing music in G mixolydian.
And the absolute correct way of notating the key signature of a song that is in a mode is; by not actually paying attention to the mode, and base it of whether it is major or minor out of the tonic (for the same reasons as above actually) (though that other method
is used as well).
btw should be noted that modes isn't limited to the church modes (the ones that spawn out of the major scale). There are a whole bunch more.
I just read that and got a headache.
Quote from: maelstrom. on July 20, 2014, 02:58:49 PMI just read that and got a headache.
Ya my piano teacher explains it much better
I'm hoping to take a music theory class at my local college. Hopefully I'll understand it then.
Quote from: Jompa on July 20, 2014, 02:56:20 PM~snip~
Then why is, say, A minor, written with the key signature of C major rather than A major? I really don't understand what your saying, how can mixolydian mode be minor or major if both of which already are a mode (aeolian and ionian respectively.)
You seem to be saying modes are all their own scales and should be notated as such, but if that was your argument, wouldn't it be more logical to notate D mixolydian with one sharp?
I feel like I'm just misunderstanding your point, but I can't think of any different way to interpret what your saying.
Quote from: FireArrow on July 20, 2014, 03:26:24 PMThen why is, say, A minor, written with the key signature of C major rather than A major? I really don't understand what your saying, how can mixolydian mode be minor or major if both of which already are a mode (aeolian and ionian respectively.)
Well, now you're treating "major scale" (which is the same as the ionian scale) and "major tonal gender" as the same thing.
Major (as in the tonal gender) refers to wether the tonal gender of the tonic is major or minor, which is only determined by the
third. If the third in the tonal center's scale is major it's major, while it's minor if the third is minor. All modes that uses a major third (example: ionian, dominant phrygian, mixolydian b6, etc.) are major, while all modes that uses the minor third (example: aeolian, dorean, phrygian etc.) are minor. Some like to think of locrian as "diminished", but whatever.
A quote from what I wrote above:
Quote from: Jompa on July 20, 2014, 02:56:20 PMthe absolute correct way of notating the key signature of a song that is in a mode is; by not actually paying attention to the mode, and base it of whether it is major or minor out of the tonic
^I am ofc referring to the tonal gender when I say that it should be based of whether the tonic is major or minor.
QuoteYou seem to be saying modes are all their own scales and should be notated as such, but if that was your argument, wouldn't it be more logical to notate D mixolydian with one sharp?
Actually, I'm saying the opposite. Half of my post actually is about how this is not the right way to think.
QuoteI feel like I'm just misunderstanding your point, but I can't think of any different way to interpret what your saying.
I guess this section is the main point:
Quote from: Jompa on July 20, 2014, 02:56:20 PMThe right way to think about modes is to treat them like key signatures. (i'll come back to the notation of them though)
If a song is in G mixolydian then the tonal center is G major, and the underlying scale that will be used for at least the majority of the piece (unless it changes mode or modulates) will be the G mixolydian scale (G major scale with the minor seventh). This has no relation to the C major scale in any way, and therefore it's G we should be/are thinking about when listening to/arranging/composing music in G mixolydian.
I just wanted to point out that you always have to think from the tonic, even if the song is using some mode, because that is exactly what we already do when we're listening to the music! Listening after that "root" that Fierce was talking about is impossible.
Thank you for clarifying, now your argument actually makes sense to me. I don't have much else to say other than I was always taught to do it fierces way. As to which is correct I'll leave to you guys.
Quote from: Jompa on July 20, 2014, 02:56:20 PMsorry if you haven't and I've misunderstood
Bingo, haha. I'm essentially in agreement with you. It seems like way #2 is almost exactly what you're saying, in fact. It was really just me misusing the term "root" because I couldn't think of a better word to describe "the scale from which the other modes are derived". I should've clarified that mode is determined by root in context of these scales, but yeah, we really don't disagree on this, haha. #1 is basically just an explanation of where the different modes come from, and for some reason my theory professors have thought that's a lot more important to focus on.
Quote from: FierceDeity on July 20, 2014, 06:25:29 PMBingo, haha. I'm essentially in agreement with you. It seems like way #2 is almost exactly what you're saying, in fact. It was really just me misusing the term "root" because I couldn't think of a better word to describe "the scale from which the other modes are derived". I should've clarified that mode is determined by root in context of these scales, but yeah, we really don't disagree on this, haha. #1 is basically just an explanation of where the different modes come from, and for some reason my theory professors have thought that's a lot more important to focus on.
Music theory books literally tell you that they're all based off of the same root. Its probably a similar issue with IT"S ALWAYS G# NOT Ab in A MINOR - where it's a good rule of thumb, but by no means how it actually works or appropriate for every scenario. This is totally awesome being able to absorb all this information for free :33
So, I'll post here a lot, but what time signature is the first part in? 6/8, or 4/4?
Spoiler
And the key signature for this? (:50 until 1:18)
Spoiler
And the key here too? (:18 'til 1:02)
Spoiler
And, finally, the time signature here too.
Spoiler
1. Well, what's arguably the correct way of doing it would be 12/8, but you can pretty much choose between that and swing 4/4, though that will probably mean a lot more work, as you'd have to write out every tuplet and stuff...
2. It's a bit crazy, but in the areas where it stays with what seems to be its tonal centers it seems to switch between G dominant phrygian and C minor as tonics, which are strongly tied together if you think the G dominant phrygian is just played over the dominant to C minor. So I'd write it in C minor.
3. This one modulates a bit. First you have the rhythmic strings and they play in C minor, but before long they modulate to E minor. In both these keys there is some dorian going on. Then it modulates into A minor and stays like that until it goes back to C minor on repeat.
4. It's normal 4/4 all the way. You just have to think that the tubular bells come on the second beat instead of the first.
This may sound simple, but what time signature is this in? I decided to finally finish it, but there seem to be way too many triplets for 4/4, so what is it? And is there a fast way to change all of your notes to match the change in the time signature?
First, what song are you talking about?
And given what you wrote, I take it it's a "4-beat-a-measure with swing and a bunch of tuplets" kinda song. If this is the case it means that you can choose, but most people would want it in 12/8. So 4/4 is ok, and the fact that there are a lot of tuplets doesn't make it wrong, but as you might guess, 12/8 would in most cases look a lot better and be easier to read. There isn't a good way to change time signature at all really, and especially not in this case. It would literally be faster to start over.
Why didn't I post the song? *facepalm* I had it open and copied the link, but didn't paste it. Here it is:
In that case I would definitely use 6/8, and so would the rest of the world too. But you could use 4/4, if you already started it that way. As I said, changing it is a nightmare.
I think I'll just keep it in 4/4. I started it a while ago, so I didn't think twice about the time signature. And I got 27 measure in. Not changing that much...
Are there any rules on double sharps/flats?
When you think about it, it comes down to the same rules as flats/sharps.
Mainly occurs in key signatures with three or more flats/sharps, and the more sharps/flats there are in the key signature the more double flats/sharps are likely to occur.
You probably wonder "why not just use a natural", but using a natural in these cases (and especially for the ones where there are many accidentals in the key signatures) pretty often results in putting the note on the wrong step of the scale (which is the most important problem as it greatly affects the readability, and often conflicts with other notes, creating even more accidentals and confusion), which then both contradicts the underlying chords and key signature (even though the accidentalized note is an irregularity to the key signature).
Though, in some cases using naturals is just fine, if it works better that way (usually considering chromatics), but lets say it is more strict to follow these double sharp/flat rules when there are more sharps/flats in the key signature. That is probably a good rule of thumb for this.
Why am I up in the middle of the night...
Thanks!
Your probably wondering why I'm asking. Im having trouble figuring the accidentals out in "King Bowser's Theme".
I figured it'd be faster to do it in a document myself, so here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/FIXKing%20Bowser%27s%20Theme.mus
This song is horrible when it comes to accidentals, but these are probably the best solutions.
Here's what I did:
First four measures:
Here your faulty accidental use pretty much only comes down to you not considering ascending/descending chromatics. The changes I did were mainly to keep it with as few loose accidentals as possible.
Next eight measures:
Left hand - there is no good way of doing this, but this is the best possible way imo (I'll come back to other possible solutions down at the bottom). Beware that I made some accidentals visible, just so the performer doesn't forget they're there before the end of the measure.
Right hand - changed whatever E naturals you had into F-flats to match up with left hand (well, mainly anyways).
Next four measures:
these are good.
Last four measures:
I changed similarly to the start (and with a bit more), so look at the document.
Last measure was good btw.
You see that measure I added? This is the measure#5 left hand figure, but with an alternative choice of accidentals. This could also work, and I can imagine some people even saying it's more correct. I wouldn't say so though, as you can't use note steps as a good argument when three of the note steps are half steps apart. And neither do I agree to those G double flats when the step under them (F) isn't even flattened in the key signature (in this case I don't agree, at least). It keeps the accidentals to a minimum though! But I would not go with this.
I suppose it could also be solved by using D# instead of Eb, to keep accidentals to a minimum, but with such a crazy mix between sharps and flats is pretty painful to read, and not to mention wrong according to the key signature.
I don't think it matters too much which one of these you choose as long as it is readable, considering this will have to be practiced to be performed anyways.
WOW!
Thanks!
I think I understand better! Thanks!
My biggest problems and hardest things for me are accidentals, finding the key, and correct beaming of notes.
But I'm working on them! :)
4/4
ok
and is it C Maj? G Maj?
I am having most dang trouble finding the key of a song.
An explanation would be great from someone who knows how to find the key. I know it has something to do with the tonal center...
It starts out in G major, then when it modulates it's B major, and then it modulates to A major, and then back on repeat.
Any rules on beaming of notes?
I'm havin' some trouble with that in this song
I think the most important thing to think about in 4/4 is to let the third beat be visible through the beaming of notes, and in many cases it's an idea to think about letting all the beats be visible through the beaming, though that can be up to preferences. The "dotted quarter+dotted quarter+quarter"-figure is often mistakenly used, because it is an easy rhythm we all know anyways, though that doesn't really justify it. In the case of "quarter+halfnote+quarter" it is allowed.
In "/8-with-dotted-quarter-beats"-signatures all the beats should be visible. When people break that rule in these cases it leaves the sheet totally unreadable. The "quarter+quarter+quarter"-figure appears every now and then, and if you ask a music teacher they'd say it isn't allowed, but it doesn't exactly affect the readability any, shouldn't affect the performer's approach to the music, and is so often mistakenly used that you could be called wrong for not doing it.
3/-signatures is probably where the rules matters the least. You can go "quarter+halfnote", "dotted quarter+eight+quarter", "halfnote+quarter", "dotted quarter+dotted quarter" and no one should really mind. But stuff like "dotted quarter+quarter+eight", "eight+quarter+dotted quarter", "quarter+eight+dotted quarter" are much less allowed, mainly because they are actually extremely hard to read.
It's all a matter of readability. Why choose note beaming that's difficult to read?
Oh Wow!
Thanks! That helped a lot :)
Quote from: Jompa on August 11, 2014, 02:30:38 PMIt starts out in G major, then when it modulates it's B major, and then it modulates to A major, and then back on repeat.
Thanks
Out of curiosity, are you arranging this? :)
I know this is in B flat, but what time signature is it in? The bass keeps messing me up. It would help if I knew what beats it was on..
^ Pretty sure it's 5/4. There's a rhythm throughout the song that's pretty common in 5/4 songs (the strings at 0:14), and Yoko does a lot of 5/4 songs too.
Quote from: maelstrom. on August 12, 2014, 07:37:35 PMI know this is in B flat, but what time signature is it in?
It's more like G-minor, and then it goes to C-minor (but that's really brief, so maybe you shouldn't include it) , and then to F-minor.
It's just 5/4 all the way.
This doesn't really belong here but it's kinda related.
This song modulates into Ab minor (I think) at 0:19, but I'm not sure how to write down the accidentals for the melody.
The notes in the first measure after the key change are Ab, Eb, D, Db, C, B, Bb, A. Should I use some weird accidentals like double flat stuff or should I just change the key signature to G# minor?
Quote from: Bloop on August 30, 2014, 04:18:24 PMShould I use some not weird at all accidentals like double flat stuff?
That would be the correct way of doing it in Ab-minor, but I don't see why you're even doing the song in Ab-minor, when G#-minor has less accidentals.
^Pretty much. They're only chromatics anyways, I wouldn't over think it.
Quote from: Jompa on August 30, 2014, 04:46:27 PMbut I don't see why you're even doing the song in Ab-minor, when G#-minor has less accidentals.
The first part of the song is in Bb-minor, and I thought switching from Bb-minor to G#-minor would make some hard time reading the sheet.
Quote from: Bloop on August 30, 2014, 04:47:59 PMThe first part of the song is in Bb-minor, and I thought switching from Bb-minor to G#-minor would make some hard time reading the sheet.
Nah, that shouldn't be something to worry about. Any modulation should make the performer have to readjust themselves, so in this case it's not a problem. If you were modulating to like the subdominant, or something like that, then it would be something to think about, but modulating down a whole step doesn't have that diatonic function stuff over it as much.
But ofc, you decide! Ab-minor is just as correct as G#-minor, it's just it's less readable. But if you're not up to using double flats (which you have to do in Ab-minor), then choose G#-minor.
Then I'll gladly make it G#-minor :p Thanks!
Quote from: Bloop on August 30, 2014, 04:47:59 PMThe first part of the song is in Bb-minor, and I thought switching from Bb-minor to G#-minor would make some hard time reading the sheet.
If it really bothered you, you could put the beginning in A# minor d: it's up to you.
In truth, A-flat minor is a lot easier to read than G-sharp minor anyway....
^its a matter of opinion, really. As a brass player I'm with you on this one but some people prefer five sharps over seven flats.
Hmm yeah you're right. For some reason sharp keys just don't sit as well with me when there are more than a few of them.
Quote from: SlowPokemon on September 01, 2014, 08:07:08 AMHmm yeah you're right. For some reason sharp keys just don't sit as well with me when there are more than a few of them.
Same with me. Can't read F# for the life of me.
I would definitely prefer five sharps over seven flats, but I don't see either of them as troublesome.
Alright, I started Life, but the note lengths are getting weird. Is this really 4/4? Here's (https://www.dropbox.com/s/si4ntryu1xbkyjo/Life.mus?dl=0) what I have so far, and here's the original:
Yes it's 4/4 all the way.
btw, the rhythm of that figure you've arranged so far is not "quarter tuplet + quarter tuplet + quarter tuplet", but "dotted eighth + sixteenth tied with eighth + eighth".
Are you sure? Then there must be some weird rhythm later. I started going further and updated my link, but when I slow the song down, the quick notes are not 16ths or I am not counting right. I think I counted about 18, but I may be wrong.
I am absolutely sure. The drum beat should make it obviously enough.
Quote from: Jompa on September 07, 2014, 03:33:24 PMI am absolutely sure. The drum beat should make it obviously enough.
Then what are the quick notes? The 4/4 time signature has sounded right from my first guesses.
They sound like normal sixteenths to me. Exactly where is it you are hearing eighteen instead?
My imagination. :P I can't believe I just did that.
I feel so stupid
Quote from: maelstrom. on September 07, 2014, 03:53:13 PMI feel so stupid
Stop touching yourself. Just kidding. I'm not at all serious nor do I mean that at all. Please don't take it personally or seriously.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?autoplay=1&v=R9DNeEas6fw
I wanna say c minor?
Not bad judgement!,
but it's actually in C dominant phrygian, which means C-major.
Later inn it goes to some tonality of D-flat which at first glance seem kinda wholetone-based (though not all the way) - anyways, it's Db-major here!
And then it kinda finds its way back to C dominant phrygian again.
Ok :)
What about the stupid accidentals? They are gonna be one heck of a problem. How about I post it on my page...
Nothing wrong with some accidentals
I guess this doesn't really count, but didn't warrant making a new topic.
So, how do I get the dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, eighth, eighth with staccato marks?
Tying it for proper note barring takes away from the staccato effect.
You can just put a rest for the value of the tied note and put staccato marks on the first note.
But it looks weird with a dotted 8th, 16th, 8th rest, quarter, 16th rest, dotted 8th. :P That's why I asked.
It's a clipped note anyway, you can't have it both ways.
Or just use eighth notes and rests.
Quote from: maelstrom. on September 23, 2014, 04:56:57 PMI guess this doesn't really count, but didn't warrant making a new topic.
So, how do I get the dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, eighth, eighth with staccato marks?
Tying it for proper note barring takes away from the staccato effect.
No it doesn't. Staccato has absolutely nothing to do with a note's length. It is a stylistic mark. If you want a shorter note, make the note vault smaller, otherwise, what you said would be correct. Just be sure to use proper rhythm groupings according to the time signature used.
Um, actually, staccato can well and truly mean that the note should be played shorter, but traditionally, staccato has been treated as a stylistic mark in classicl music. But that just means the mark has more meanings, like a lot of other articulations also have.
Most people would say that staccato means that the note should be shortened, and I'd say that's what it means first and foremost today. But I'd also say that what you're saying isn't wrong.
Is this supposed to be in C major or C minor?
[MUS] (https://www.dropbox.com/s/s8i346o0hyarm4l/FOSTERS.mus?dl=0)
C major is the tonic chord, but it's obviously a c minor scale. wut
link doesn't work. :P
works for me. :P
Of course it does, it's your account, haha. You probably linked to the file as you would access it from your own dropbox; make sure you actually share it.
Try the link now I guess.
Pretty sure that's C with a lot of accidentals
Quote from: FireArrow on September 24, 2014, 07:42:21 PMC major is the tonic chord, but it's obviously a c minor scale. wut
First off, if C-major is the tonic chord, the key is C-major - no argument.
Also, it's wrong to say the underlying scale of this song is C-minor, because that only occurs on the chords that are total exceptions from the key and mode - in this case it's not even a mode, it's just C-ionian. So again, it's C-major.
Quote from: Jompa on September 25, 2014, 02:33:46 PMFirst off, if C-major is the tonic chord, the key is C-major - no argument.
Also, it's wrong to say the underlying scale of this song is C-minor, because that only occurs on the chords that are total exceptions from the key and mode - in this case it's not even a mode, it's just C-ionian. So again, it's C-major.
Ok, sure. Im curious though, is this a normal composition style - using an inverse tonic chord for a chord progression common in another key?
I need the TS and Key :p
and I know this is the wrong thread, but for the "bum bum"(<-whatever im supposed to call it), should I take it out of the song or put it into the left hand? I dont see how it'll be playable but I dont really feel like taking it out of the song...I hope I'm making some sense >-<
4/4,
D-major,
and I have no idea what you're talking about.
Zoroark, are you referring to that synthetic bass thing that plays throughout? That can be notated if you want.
oh wait it can be played
never mind, my ears must be broken. x'D
and ty jompo
What are the keys, and time signatures of these songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1tjASbtOmI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlNz7qu3UO8
The first one is in 4, in C-major mixolydian, with funky underlying swing eights.
The second one is in 3, in F-minor.
Personally I'd probably be inclined to slap a 12/16 time on that second one.
Alright, thanks guys! I'll start right away!
I think you're interpreting Jompa's suggestion of 3 in a different tempo than I am. I'm thinking of it as dotted half note = about 72, i.e. it'd typically be conducted in 1. In which case, I'd recommend switching to 6/8 (dotted half note = dotted half note) at certain points of syncopation, because although the syncopation would be totally legible in 3/4, alternating between 3/4 and 6/8 isn't uncommon, and the syncopation would clearly be implying the latter, anyways.
Granted, a uniform 3/4 at that tempo (or even 6/8 at dotted quarter = 72) would probably still be preferable over 12/16 (assumedly in quarter note = 108), mostly because /16 meters are much less common and, in my opinion, no simpler for reading syncopations than more common meters with the same amount of beats. (Also, at that tempo, the underlying rhythm would have a near-constant split down the middle of the bar, which makes me wonder why not just use a /8 meter, if that's the way you're gonna go).
Heh, thanks, but I gave up the 2nd one a while ago. Sorry to waste your time.
What is the time signature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJAzhRz_U5s
4/4
K, thanks!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nr45sx6y83a8jj5/ORAS%20arrangement.mus?dl=0
hey, this is the right time signature and format, right
I'd recommend 12/8, but it's fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z8t8cLr748
Time signature?
4/4, with a couple of occational 3/4-measures
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVjHe8F1KC8
Timesig/Key?
3/4 A minor
Make that 12/8 unless you want the tempo to be something like 400 bpm
3/4 time with the quarter note at 188 is nothing abnormal.
On my phone this song sounded totally 12/8 (the drums were really faint), but now on my computer I can hear that it's in 3/4, so you're right.
I mean, technically speaking this is pretty constantly alternating between 6/8 and 3/4, though yeah there's nothing wrong with writing it all in 3/4 and every other bar as a mild syncopation. Could also write it all as 6/8 imo.
Is there a name for a time signature that indicates this alternation, though? I played a brass choir piece recently that listed both 3/4 and 6/8 at the beginning in the order in which they alternate, and wasn't sure if that was more common. There may have been something similar in the third movement of Grainger's Lincolnshire Posy as well, but that might have just been a shitty engraving job on long rests (I wouldn't be surprised, the entire engraving was pretty awful).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzbpnEg4XfE
decided to go with a different mgr song, tume key
Quote from: Yugi on January 18, 2015, 02:45:22 PMdecided to go with a different mgr song, tume key
You probably shouldn't trust me, but 6/8 Emin?
Hearing 4/4, but idk. I think it changes in places.
There might be some awkward language barrier stuff in this post:
It's in 12/8 or 6/8 or whatever you prefer but there's a lot of duplet eights being played over the underlying tuplet eights rhythm (hemiols, polyrhythmic, all that stuff) making that straight 4/4 feel we occationally get. It is in B-minor, in phrygian.
What time signature is this?
Bb major, 12/8 time - borrows heavily from mixolydian mode and parallel minor (hence all the Ab's and Gb's)
Quote from: Jompa on January 30, 2015, 10:22:31 AMThere might be some awkward language barrier stuff in this post:
It's in 12/8 or 6/8 or whatever you prefer but there's a lot of duplet eights being played over the underlying tuplet eights rhythm (hemiols, polyrhythmic, all that stuff) making that straight 4/4 feel we occationally get. It is in B-minor, in phrygian.
That makes a lot of sense.
Quote from: braixen1264 on January 30, 2015, 10:37:26 AM[YouTube video]
What time signature is this?
Quote from: Bespinben on January 30, 2015, 10:45:10 AMBb major, 12/8 time - borrows heavily from mixolydian mode and parallel minor (hence all the Ab's and Gb's)
More presisely, the first part is in G-major, and then it goes to Bb-major. If they're not in it throughout the whole song, these two tonalities are
at least borrowing from mixolydian by using the flattened 7th step of the scale in many places. Towards the end there appears alterations to this scale. But saying it borrows from its parallel minor isn't quite right; it's more about the chord progression allowing the use of the flattened 6th, 3rd and 7th steps of the scale in many places.
You guys all are extremely helpful. However, I can't find the key signature of "Electrodrome" from Mario Kart 8. Can someone help me out?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PESNXPACz2E
C-major and briefly A-major, both based on mixolydian. Beware of that cliche bVI bVII I progression that spawns a bunch of flattened 6th and 3rd steps of the tonic scale.
Oh my goodness! Thank you so much! (And thank you, Mariolegofan, as well)
This is just giving me problems. I can't tell if it's 6/8, 4/4 with triplets, or wtf it is.
And how should I notate the beginning? It modulates every measure.
that thingy at the beginning is just a rit. if that's what you're talking about
I'd count it in 6/8 myself though
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 01, 2015, 05:59:03 PMthat thingy at the beginning is just a rit
Key signature, not time.
Quote from: Maelstrom on February 01, 2015, 05:50:18 PMThis is just giving me problems. I can't tell if it's 6/8, 4/4 with triplets, or wtf it is.
And how should I notate the beginning? It modulates every measure.
am I the only one who thought he was talking about time sig
Progression:
F# | G# | A | B | C | D | Esus | E || and (you probably don't need me saying all this, but here comes a further analysis:) then on to the main part in A-major, which, like the last eternity of songs posted here, uses and borrows from that cliche bVI bVII I progression so beware of flattened 3rd, 6th and 7th steps.
Then it goes to D-major, then it goes to G-minor, then Bb-minor, then it repeats from the A-major part.
But the point is: the main part is in A-major, and that intro is pretty much just leading to that anyways, so you should notate it in A-major.
So it is 6/8?
I'm Kind of embarrassed for still asking for keys.....
Is this one in F Minor?
I figured out a new way to find keys. I wanna see if its working :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQwp7zDeLlc
Pretty sure it's F harmonic minor
F-minor and C#-minor
Quote from: mariolegofan on February 02, 2015, 09:15:21 AMAND C# - minor?
It's Jompa. He's never wrong when it comes to Key sigs.
And is mine really 6/8?
Thank you for your indirect compliment^.^
Quote from: Maelstrom on February 02, 2015, 09:23:58 AMAnd is mine really 6/8?
Considering the eightnote tuplets will have such a big presence on the sheet it would definitely be the smartest to have it in 6/8. That is one reason at least.
Thanks. And you're welcome. :P
I just wanted to check before I arranged the entire piece in the wrong time sig.
Quote from: Maelstrom on February 02, 2015, 09:23:58 AMIt's Jompa. He's never wrong when it comes to Key sigs.
Whoops, I didn't mean I thought it was wrong. Just wondering where it changes.....
Here's what I have so far (NOT FINAL):
[.mus] (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yaktn8ctb8n00e/Open%20for%20Business%21.mus?dl=0)
I know it changes to G Major repeatedly (for the, idk, answer part of the main theme)
Is it in B flat instead of F?
I notated it in 2/4 because anything else just felt wrong.
Actually, it's just in plain ol' A minor. The Bb's and F#s make a lot more sense in that context, plus the chromatic descent of the bass from m.14-17 starting at A gives it away (look up "lament bass").
Oh, and since m. 25 is derived from a DbM7 chord, you're gonna wanna spell the C# as Db and the G# as Ab.
Well, that's what I had it in to start, if that counts for anything......
But, what about the time sig? That's the real reason I posted this.
This song has the quirky aspect of having an irregular hypermeter. Written as 2/4 currently, you can see there is a 5-bar phrase, then a 4-bar phrase, followed by a 4 & 1/2 bar phrase, then 4, then 5 & 1/2, and then just more madness. It fits well with the idea of the song.
The problem with keeping it in 2/4 is that these overarching metric divisions aren't as immediately apparent as they could be, and we want to communicate this information to the player with the most efficiency as possible. The other problem is I don't have a lot of experience with this subject, so I'm not sure what to tell you from there. Maybe set a "standard" key signature like 4/4, and then accommodate the "hiccups" with a momentary 2/4, or a 5/4.
(For example, doing it this way, the beginning would have two 4/4 measures, then one 2/4, then three 4/4 measures, then a 5/4 measure, then three 4/4's , then a 7/4..... ugh....)
[Actually, look at old Renaissance music - think it has a lot of similar time irregularities {ex: "Fair Phyllis I saw sitting all alone"}]
Quote from: Bespinben on February 10, 2015, 05:39:52 PMThe Bb's and F#s make a lot more sense in that context.
Those contexts are kinda like this:
As Bespin said; F# showing up in A-minor isn't all that big of a deal, and then there is descending bass too.
But the
B-flats show up because it modulates to
D-minor out in there.
But where? The B flats pop up repeatedly. Is it worth notating as such?
I'd say it starts being D-minor at like 00:20 when the marimba comes in there, but it's mainly at the next part it is easy to identify it as D-minor. I'd notate it.
Time/key signature? Thanks!
Oreburgh City
C major, 4/4 time.
Quote from: Bespinben on February 11, 2015, 06:54:05 PMOreburgh City
C major, 4/4 time.
Thanks! C major was what I thought at first, but I'm just curious why there are so many accidentals. Here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7p5zle0k847www/Oreburgh%20City.mus?dl=1)'s a preliminary rough sketch. It's fine that way?
You're going strong! Good luck with all the other parts ;) Remember that in 4/4, when you have a dotted quarter + dotted quarter + quarter, it should be written as dotted quarter + eighth-tied to quarter + quarter. This is to help show beat 3.
Quote from: Bespinben on February 11, 2015, 07:21:10 PMYou're going strong! Good luck with all the other parts ;) Remember that in 4/4, when you have a dotted quarter + dotted quarter + quarter, it should be written as dotted quarter + eighth-tied to quarter + quarter. This is to help show beat 3.
Alright, thanks for the help! You'll be seeing a more fleshed out version soon :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5quxFte-97o
Can someone help me find the time/key signature of this one?
4/4 in E minor.
Thank you!!
Two more. I'm not 100% sure I'm going to do these, but the time signatures are completely confusing me.
The first one is in 3/4 all the way.
The second one is in 4/4, pretty much all the way, apart from in that part between 1:05 to 1:48, where there are like four or five 2/4-measures spread around.
Wow. I was completely over thinking the first one.
I know I'm completely overthinking this, but what is the RH rhythm for the first 2 measures?
There's some very slight differences in the following measures, but this should give you the basic idea:
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1111.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh475%2FBespinben%2Fcapture_zpsn6oalcq2.jpg&hash=45f328ae91d51800118ec1829a7b852fa51905fd) (http://s1111.photobucket.com/user/Bespinben/media/capture_zpsn6oalcq2.jpg.html)
Tempo seems right, but the notes don't exactly......
Anyway, thanks for the help.
Of course the tempo is right - it's got your name on it!
I guess the biggest problem for me regarding note beaming is where to put the rests. Like, how do you know whether in his for example to put an 8th note or a 16th note and 16th rest.....
AAAaaaaaactually, mlf, if you want to look theoretically at that sheet there, there is some questioinable choices bespin's made there. There is nothing wrong with the note beaming there, but the choices between eightnote vs sixteenth+sixteenth rest haven't resulted in the most perfect and most readable outcome - still though, nothing wrong with that notation. The "ideal" thing would be to only have the sixteenth rests that occur on the beats (to make the beats visible through the note-beaming (which it correctly is now btw)), and use eight notes instead (maybe with staccato).
Yeah. I know HOW to use note beaming and the rules. I just wanted to know if using 16th - 16th rest or 8th and staccato mattered.
I also have trouble with 3/4 note beaming. 4/4 is fairly simple.
Beaming each beat separately is the safest bet.
Separately? You mean like showing every beat in the measure?
Yep, all 3 beats. (obviously excluding where the whole bar is a rest)
Quote from: Deku Trombonist on February 26, 2015, 09:06:11 PMYep, all 3 beats. (obviously excluding where the whole bar is a rest)
I see. I'm arranging a pretty wild 3/4 song from Super Paper Mario that is a pain in the butt.....beaming-wise.
So, I have a list...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t6jY6OCkek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw_J9pvUEME (this sounds like 2/8 or 4/8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7SrUYEKMOg
Thanks all!
Oh, btw... I only need time signatures. Key signatures are easy enough to figure out.
Simple answer: 3/4 (6/8); 4/4; 4/4 (12/8)
Unabridged answer:
*Cave of Origins depends on how you want the beaming to look. I'd personally write it in 6/8 so that way the harp part would be written as 16ths (and so the measures aren't so short).
*Ancient Pokémon Battle just sounds like a standard 4/4 with syncopation
*Regi Trio is fun because you have to decide whether the triplets or the duplets form the basis of your key signature. There is certainly 4 beats per phrase, but the question is how you want to subdivide that. The rhythmic divisions are actually quite similar to my "Ragged Mountain" arrangement from Gates to Infinity in this respect. As such, I'd recommend writing this in 12/8. You would write out the bass ostinato as being syncopated against the beat (quarter, eighth-tied-eighth, eighth, eighth).
Thanks for all the great advice, and thanks for finding those times!
I might start on these once I've finished one of my two current projects. Pokemon Lab from XD: Gale of darkness, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hp6ce_aBKc), is almost done, so I might try those out. Or I might stick to XD Music for now... Agh!
12/8 - C Major.
I already am arranging it, I got it down @mariolegofan. Thanks though. And I have it as 6/8 that transitions into 8/8 (which I notate as common time for simplicities sake). Anyways.
Ok!
C minor in 4/4 time with a 1 beat pick-up
Oh I deleted that post a second before you posted that because I changed my mind. I'm not gonna arrange it because I'm not experienced enough, but thanks anyway!
Dont know where else to post this but where in finale our those line that point from left hand to right hand at or......?
lol nvm. I found it. It's the line tool
I can't figure out for the life of me whether this should be ♩=45 or ♩=90.
And whether it changes when it swaps to 3/4 at 1:26
And wth is the key signature. It's something weird, all right.
Wow!
That is one weird song. It feels like it's in D Minor (1 flat) throughout the beginning.
The time sig is another story. I Can't pinpoint it. It felt like 4/4 6/4 and even 6/8 at some spots. Idk :/
Tough song.
1 flat is D minor. F minor is 4 flats.
I think he confused the relative major and minor.
Any second opinions?
Quote from: Maelstrom on April 25, 2015, 12:39:04 PMI think he confused the relative major and minor.
Whoops I was thinking D but my fingers put F
Sorry XD
The first part feels like 4/4 time or something similar before going to 3/4. After that, it sounds like 4/4 again.
I would notate the first part in D minor and the second part in F minor, adding those flats as accidentals. I have no idea what the key signature is when that organ comes in...
My real question is, is it ♩=45 or ♩=90?
Quote from: Maelstrom on April 25, 2015, 01:12:20 PMMy real question is, is it ♩=45 or ♩=90?
I'd go 90.....personally. But I don't think it really matters
Quote from: mariolegofan on April 25, 2015, 01:13:56 PMI'd go 90.....personally. But I don't think it really matters
But then the quarter tied over the bar line feels really unnatural.
You're right but 45 seems so slow
Any other opinions?
I'm on my phone so I can't really offer anything remotely concrete, but have you considered a different time signature, such as 4/2 with minim = 45?
Just to clear up, for the key signature:
It starts with that D-minor-thing. There is a feeling of phrygian here. It then goes to that C-minor-chord-thing, but the tonal center actually also changes to C-minor, where there also is a phrygian feel. I would not notate this key change because it happens again and again and only stay in one of the keys for short periods.
When the organ takes over (0:45) it is in Bb-minor.
Then it goes to Db-minor for those weird rhythm stuff, and then to Eb-minor over the same rhythm stuff, and then it goes of to some strange free-tonal-ish stuff, but that's basically there so it can land on that Eb-chord which leads to D-minor at the repeat.
Quote from: Deku Trombonist on April 25, 2015, 10:25:23 PMI'm on my phone so I can't really offer anything remotely concrete, but have you considered a different time signature, such as 4/2 with minim = 45?
That might actually work. PM me if you want to see what I have and go from there.
Quote from: Jompa on April 26, 2015, 10:28:08 AMLots of great stuff
As always, Jompa comes through again. Thanks so much.
Double post, but wait, D flat minor? Is it supposed to be C# minor?
Or D minor?
yeah, sorry, the key Db-minor isn't a thing.
But I'm starting to get confused here, and this might just be because this recorder flute I'm using is out of tune (and I am literally to lazy to walk downstairs to my keyboard, or even just to opn Finale), but is it just me or is this song actually a bit sharper than what we in the west would call "in tune"? If I'm right: that sure is something to think about! (though again; I'm too lazy to check)
I don't think so. I remember that it was pretty much in tune with the keyboard I keep next to my desk. Anyway, I already did that part but I need to double check the chords. It was something seriously weird.
Theoretical keys need love too D:
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on April 26, 2015, 06:37:31 PMTheoretical keys need love too D:
I used spellings from Gb minor during a modulating section in my "Hazy Pass" 4-hands duet ;)
<3 <3 <3
I used to write some compositions of mine in G# major as opposed to A flat.
This is a cool page about theoretical keys
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_key
They're nice in theory, but otherwise impractical for any real use in music notation. At least with a 12 tone tuning system, which is all we will ever use for the most part.
That still doesn't answer my question about what key the song is in when it goes into those crazy chords.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/C99cdxsUa0Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I am currently working on arrangements of the first two tracks of this video, "Operation Intrude N313" and "Theme of Tara." Since these will be my first submissions to this site, I thought I'd take this opportunity to learn some of the ropes. I already have the time signature down for both songs, but I 'm not nearly as certain about the key signature. I personally hear an E minor throughout both songs up until about 51 seconds into the video, although it may be constant throughout both songs and I'm just not able to detect it.
Since I'm pretty much a full-blown amateur, I thought it would be best to get some quick confirmation while also introducing myself to the community. Thanks in advance!
The first one is in E-minor.
The second one is also in E-minor. What you hear at 51 seconds in isn't a modulation - it lands at and F-tritone chord (which is the tritone of the dominant, so it makes sense) and switches between that and a F-powerchord, but the tonal center is still back at E-minor. However at 1:06 this gets more complex as it start switching between that F-tritonechord and Gb7(with no 3rd) (making F the tonal center), and then it swithces between F-powerchord and Gb-powerchord (with an even clearer F as tonal center), before awkwardly making its way back to E-minor for that last long part before repeat.
Quote from: Jompa on April 28, 2015, 10:27:16 AMThe first one is in E-minor.
The second one is also in E-minor. What you hear at 51 seconds in isn't a modulation - it lands at and F-tritone chord (which is the tritone of the dominant, so it makes sense) and switches between that and a F-powerchord, but the tonal center is still back at E-minor. However at 1:06 this gets more complex as it start switching between that F-tritonechord and Gb7(with no 3rd) (making F the tonal center), and then it swithces between F-powerchord and Gb-powerchord (with an even clearer F as tonal center), before awkwardly making its way back to E-minor for that last long part before repeat.
Wow! Well, now I'm really feeling bad about not having a legit piano lesson since half my life ago, because I have absolutely no idea how to make that look pretty on paper. Like I said: full-blown amateur. I can jot the notes down like nothing else because my brain is weird like that, but I think I just barely understood half of what you just told me.
Any chance you could help me learn what I need to do now that I have this information?
EDIT: Nevermind, looked it up. Thanks, by the way. I came here hoping to learn, and I wouldn't be doing that if I weren't getting so much helpful advice.
I still haven't gotten a definitive answer on what key it should be in at 1:26. (M 17)
Here's what I have stuck in C#m for some reason:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bn9nhbcgcx5h46a/Chaos.mus?dl=0
It's C-minor (phrygian) there, just like the next part is Eb-minor (phrygian) - the reason I said Db was because my recorder had it's head pulled out from the body a bit, so it was more than a quarter tone low.
Tip for the part in Eb-minor: use F-flats instead of E-naturals, to get correct harmonic functions! And I'd suggest E-doubleflats for the D-naturals, both for having the chord steps correct, but also so that you don't have stuff like both Db and D, or Eb and E in the same chords - it gets confusing to read. So in the C-minor part you should use C-flats for those B-naturals when you change the key sig.
Alright, thanks!
Sorry for the late input on this but I'd definitely go with 4/4 at 90 bpm on chaos, mael. Feels much more natural to me than counting it at 45 bpm, plus having sixteenth note syncopations at 0:43 would be especially difficult, I think. There's also that sixteenth note echo/whatever effect near the beginning, which really shouldn't feel like 32nd notes imo.
As for 4/4 vs 4/2, it's kind of inconsequential in the very beginning (syncopation with tied over notes in 4/4 is perfectly fine), but 4/2 isn't really as appropriate once you get to 0:43, as the percussion background would divide it into two equal halves + generally indicate a quarter note pulse, and while that's not necessarily going to be notated in your arrangement, I still wouldn't feel it all as a single bar. Also, since the next section is clearly in 3/4, and there doesn't really seem to be a difference in pulse from the previous section, it makes more sense to me to just keep the pulse as a quarter note throughout.
I've just arranged this song but i'm not certain about the time signatures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvKsv0vvBVw
The first part, In the very beginning, is it 4/4 or 2/2, or something else?
The second part(0.14), is it 4/4 in the first three measures, or is it 5/4+3/4+4/4, or something else??
https://www.youtube.com/embed/t4SHQSSeib4
Okay. So remember how I said I had the time signature all figured out for this song? Well, I thought I did, but now I'm not so sure.
The only issue I have is with the very beginning (the first 39 seconds). Keeping it in 4/4 time looks good on paper, but when I count it out in my head it sounds all kinds of weird. The only psychologically pleasing pattern I've come up with so far is going back and forth between 2/4 and 6/4 times, but that can't possibly be right, can it?
Could really use a second opinion here.
4/4 is fine. The emphasis on beats one and two can throw off your sense or rhythm (along with the lack of drum/bass beat during those beats), but rhythmically it's all in 4/4. It's just really-weirdly-composed 4/4.
8/4
Thank you. I think I finally have enough done right that I can submit this thing without being told I have to fix, well, everything. Expect it on the site within the hour.
Quote from: Arc of the Half-Moon on May 02, 2015, 02:54:44 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/embed/t4SHQSSeib4
Okay. So remember how I said I had the time signature all figured out for this song? Well, I thought I did, but now I'm not so sure.
The only issue I have is with the very beginning (the first 39 seconds). Keeping it in 4/4 time looks good on paper, but when I count it out in my head it sounds all kinds of weird. The only psychologically pleasing pattern I've come up with so far is going back and forth between 2/4 and 6/4 times, but that can't possibly be right, can it?
Could really use a second opinion here.
I'm pretty sure it's a slow 4/4, with 8ths subdivision in the bass.
SO.....could someone tell me about modes? I've been taking a lot of theory intake lately and would like to know what modes are and how they function.
I know key sig very well. I have a trick
For sharps I remember this phrase:
F, C, G, D, A, E, B = Fat Cats Go Down Alleys Eating Bacon
For Flats:
B, E, A, D, G, C, F = B, E, A, D, Game Cube Fan
Haha.....it might be silly.....but that's how I remember them :P
And if I know these, I can easily figure out the key sig.
C Major, G Major, D Major, A Major, E Major, B Major, F# Major, and C # Major.
(For minor you go down 3 half steps for example C Major = A Minor)
So, what are modes?
Ionian
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aeolian
Locrian
They represent an octave played using only the white keys, Ionian is C, Dorian is D, Phrygian is E, Lydian is F, Mixolydian is G, Aeolian is A, and Locrian is B. Locrian is illegal to use because it has 2 half steps in it's pentascale, which means it's demonic of origin.
I'm gonna type a more, er, detailed explanation than that once I get to a computer lol
he didn't want them explained he just wanted to know what they were
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on May 03, 2015, 11:03:58 AMIonian
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aeolian
Locrian
They represent an octave played using only the white keys, Ionian is C, Dorian is D, Phrygian is E, Lydian is F, Mixolydian is G, Aeolian is A, and Locrian is B. Locrian is illegal to use because it has 2 half steps in it's pentascale, which means it's demonic of origin.
Locrian is illegal, hmm what happens if use it? Will the police come and arrest me?? ^^
worse, the catholics come and arrest you
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on May 03, 2015, 12:43:48 PMworse, the catholics come and arrest you
Not if I use my piano to summon Baphomet before they get here, they can't!
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on May 03, 2015, 11:59:05 AMhe didn't want them explained he just wanted to know what they were
That's an even better reason for someone else to write another explanation.
Alright, at a computer. Now let me clarify why that needs a little elaboration haha
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on May 03, 2015, 11:03:58 AMThey represent an octave played using only the white keys, Ionian is starting and centered on C, Dorian is starting and centered on D, Phrygian is starting and centered on E, etc.
So not including that fix above, which is kinda necessary when explaining to somebody entirely new to modes, there are a few things:
-What you described are only the "church modes" (though that term can also be applied to Gregorian modes apparently, who knew); there are countless other modes that exist, though those are the main ones of concern.
-That doesn't really describe what modes are, only how to play them in C. The way you stated it also implies that they're only ever using natural notes, which I'm sure you know isn't true. So don't oversimplify.
So, here's my explanation of modes:
long af
A mode is very much like a scale; the distinction between the two is pretty arbitrary, and people will generally understand you whether you say "dorian mode" or "dorian scale". Some modes are literally called scales. The whole tone scale, for example, is called a mode. So, really, just think of modes as types of scales for now.
The church modes (which as I look more into it it's starting to seem as if the name isn't wholly agreed upon) are essentially like Nocturne said. The major scale is known as Ionian, and you can find the other six related church modes by starting on a different note of the scale. So, I'm just going to write out the original scale in two octaves and shift over the bold to show where (one octave of) the scale lies within the C major scale.
C Ionian, starting on the first pitch of the major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
D Dorian, starting on the second pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
E Phrygian, starting on the third pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
F Lydian, starting on the fourth pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
G Mixolydian, starting on the fifth pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
A Aeolian (natural minor), starting on the sixth pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
B Locrian, starting on the seventh pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
However, this approach isn't really so useful for understanding modes as it is for playing them on a piano. As one of my professors described it, it ascribes a "C-centric" (or whatever pitch is the tonic of the Ionian mode) quality to them that doesn't exist. The modes themselves have their own centers in their scales' starting pitches. So, here's another way to think of it, based on the C Major scale (C D E F G A B C) and C natural minor scale (C D Eb F G Ab Bb C), with altered pitches in bold:
-Lydian is like a major scale with a raised fourth. (C D E F# G A B C).
-Ionian is a major scale.
-Mixolydian is like a major scale with a lowered seventh (C Mixolydian = C D E F G A Bb C).
-Dorian is like a natural minor scale with the sixth raised (C D Eb F G A Bb C), or a major scale with the third and seventh lowered (C D Eb F G A Bb C).
-Aeolian is like a natural minor scale, or a major scale with the third, sixth, and seventh lowered (C D Eb F G Ab Bb C).
-Phrygian is like a natural minor scale with the second lowered (C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C), or a major scale with the second, third, sixth, and seventh lowered (C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C).
-Locrian is like a natural minor scale with the second and fifth lowered (C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C), or a major scale with the second, third, fifth, sixth, and seventh lowered (C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C).
The first three (Lydian, Ionian, Mixolydian) are considered to be major modes, as the triad starting on the root of each is a major triad (C E G).
Similarly, the next three (Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian) are considered to be minor modes, as the triad starting on the root of each is a minor triad (C Eb G).
Locrian isn't really considered to be either, as the triad starting on its root would be diminished (C Eb Gb).
The only reason I really included how to get to the minor modes based on the major scale is because it ties into a way of ordering the modes, and that's by the amount of notes lowered (or raised); this is the way I used to order them in that list. Though not every scale will necessarily use sharps or flats in this manner (for example, these modes based on F# ionian would never have any flats), I'm just going to use b and # to indicate whether a note is lowered or raised from the major scale.
Lydian: #4
Ionian: N/A
Mixolydian: b7
Dorian: b3, b7
Aeolian: b3, b6, b7
Phrygian: b2, b3, b6, b7
Locrian: b2, b3, b5, b6, b7
So, as you can see, the altered pitches are sort of cumulative, ranging from Lydian as the "most raised", and Locrian as the "most lowered".
Locrian isn't really illegal so much as not really used as the main mode of many pieces, as it is extremely difficult to establish a tonal center with it. Because of the b5, as mentioned earlier, there is no major or minor "tonic chord" to come back to, nor is there really the possibility of a diatonic (meaning its notes are part of the scale) chord with dominant (meaning it leads back to the tonic) function.
My last bit on the church modes (Jompa I know you're going to disagree with me on this lol):
For key signatures, it's generally accepted if you write the closest major or minor key signature (i.e. C major for C lydian, ionian, or mixolydian, and C minor for C dorian, aeolian, phrygian, or locrian), and just use accidentals for the altered pitches. However, according to literally every theory textbook or professor I've ever consulted, as well as several examples in unrelated classes, it's also perfectly acceptable to just write down the number of sharps or flats in the mode, i.e. 4 flats for C phrygian.
And then one tidbit on other modes:
There are other modes than these. For example, modes based on the harmonic minor scale, or Messiaen's modes of limited transposition (whole tone, octatonic, and then some more theoretical stuff that doesn't get used as often). You don't necessarily have to know them, but know that there are more than just 7, haha.
Quote from: FierceDeity on May 03, 2015, 02:43:32 PMAlright, at a computer. Now let me clarify why that needs a little elaboration haha
So not including that fix above, which is kinda necessary when explaining to somebody entirely new to modes, there are a few things:
-What you described are only the "church modes" (though that term can also be applied to Gregorian modes apparently, who knew); there are countless other modes that exist, though those are the main ones of concern.
-That doesn't really describe what modes are, only how to play them in C. The way you stated it also implies that they're only ever using natural notes, which I'm sure you know isn't true. So don't oversimplify.
So, here's my explanation of modes:
long af
A mode is very much like a scale; the distinction between the two is pretty arbitrary, and people will generally understand you whether you say "dorian mode" or "dorian scale". Some modes are literally called scales. The whole tone scale, for example, is called a mode. So, really, just think of modes as types of scales for now.
The church modes (which as I look more into it it's starting to seem as if the name isn't wholly agreed upon) are essentially like Nocturne said. The major scale is known as Ionian, and you can find the other six related church modes by starting on a different note of the scale. So, I'm just going to write out the original scale in two octaves and shift over the bold to show where (one octave of) the scale lies within the C major scale.
C Ionian, starting on the first pitch of the major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
D Dorian, starting on the second pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
E Phrygian, starting on the third pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
F Lydian, starting on the fourth pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
G Mixolydian, starting on the fifth pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
A Aeolian (natural minor), starting on the sixth pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
B Locrian, starting on the seventh pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
However, this approach isn't really so useful for understanding modes as it is for playing them on a piano. As one of my professors described it, it ascribes a "C-centric" (or whatever pitch is the tonic of the Ionian mode) quality to them that doesn't exist. The modes themselves have their own centers in their scales' starting pitches. So, here's another way to think of it, based on the C Major scale (C D E F G A B C) and C natural minor scale (C D Eb F G Ab Bb C), with altered pitches in bold:
-Lydian is like a major scale with a raised fourth. (C D E F# G A B C).
-Ionian is a major scale.
-Mixolydian is like a major scale with a lowered seventh (C Mixolydian = C D E F G A Bb C).
-Dorian is like a natural minor scale with the sixth raised (C D Eb F G A Bb C), or a major scale with the third and seventh lowered (C D Eb F G A Bb C).
-Aeolian is like a natural minor scale, or a major scale with the third, sixth, and seventh lowered (C D Eb F G Ab Bb C).
-Phrygian is like a natural minor scale with the second lowered (C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C), or a major scale with the second, third, sixth, and seventh lowered (C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C).
-Locrian is like a natural minor scale with the second and fifth lowered (C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C), or a major scale with the second, third, fifth, sixth, and seventh lowered (C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C).
The first three (Lydian, Ionian, Mixolydian) are considered to be major modes, as the triad starting on the root of each is a major triad (C E G).
Similarly, the next three (Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian) are considered to be minor modes, as the triad starting on the root of each is a minor triad (C Eb G).
Locrian isn't really considered to be either, as the triad starting on its root would be diminished (C Eb Gb).
The only reason I really included how to get to the minor modes based on the major scale is because it ties into a way of ordering the modes, and that's by the amount of notes lowered (or raised); this is the way I used to order them in that list. Though not every scale will necessarily use sharps or flats in this manner (for example, these modes based on F# ionian would never have any flats), I'm just going to use b and # to indicate whether a note is lowered or raised from the major scale.
Lydian: #4
Ionian: N/A
Mixolydian: b7
Dorian: b3, b7
Aeolian: b3, b6, b7
Phrygian: b2, b3, b6, b7
Locrian: b2, b3, b5, b6, b7
So, as you can see, the altered pitches are sort of cumulative, ranging from Lydian as the "most raised", and Locrian as the "most lowered".
Locrian isn't really illegal so much as not really used as the main mode of many pieces, as it is extremely difficult to establish a tonal center with it. Because of the b5, as mentioned earlier, there is no major or minor "tonic chord" to come back to, nor is there really the possibility of a diatonic (meaning its notes are part of the scale) chord with dominant (meaning it leads back to the tonic) function.
My last bit on the church modes (Jompa I know you're going to disagree with me on this lol):
For key signatures, it's generally accepted if you write the closest major or minor key signature (i.e. C major for C lydian, ionian, or mixolydian, and C minor for C dorian, aeolian, phrygian, or locrian), and just use accidentals for the altered pitches. However, according to literally every theory textbook or professor I've ever consulted, as well as several examples in unrelated classes, it's also perfectly acceptable to just write down the number of sharps or flats in the mode, i.e. 4 flats for C phrygian.
And then one tidbit on other modes:
There are other modes than these. For example, modes based on the harmonic minor scale, or Messiaen's modes of limited transposition (whole tone, octatonic, and then some more theoretical stuff that doesn't get used as often). You don't necessarily have to know them, but know that there are more than just 7, haha.
Thank you so much! That helps so much! Wanna be my theory instructor? ;)
QuoteJompa I know you're going to disagree with me on this lol
However, according to literally every theory textbook or professor I've ever consulted, as well as several examples in unrelated classes, it's also perfectly acceptable to just write down the number of sharps or flats in the mode, i.e. 4 flats for C phrygian.
Nonono. I would disagree if you didn't know what you're talking about (because I believe that for newbies it is a damaging way of thinking), but if one has a reflecting mind (which is
not the case in literally every case (except here with you(!))) they should do what they want.
Though it should be noted that what's most commonly accepted as correct is to do the "tonic+is it minor or major?"-thing, and I strongly support it for the fact that if anyone's gonna benefit theroy- and harmony-wise from the sheet, it is literally 10 times better to have something written in what the tonic dictates.
There's also a lot of circumstancial stuff that supports this (like how often something isn't strictly inside a modes boundries through a whole song, which makes it really silly to start having accidentals for those kinds of notes), but if one knows what's going on and just wanna make a sheet playable, then I think it's fine. Not sure if I think the site's rules should allow it though, but THAT is just me.
The point of modes:
A starting point for where a piece's tonality is comming from (very much like how a song is either "minor" or "major").
Pretty much consists of a set bunch of notes that will be used to define this.
So they're kinda like keys, both notationwise
and listeningwise (like an undercategory).
Basically, using modes in music is just a way to variate the tonal language from the usual major/minor (though one can hardly call it "variation" anymote), and one is free to use modality in whatever degree they want (if it's like one measure in a song, or the entire song, or switching between like eight modes).
It's actually really easy to hear what mode a piece is in (even the more crazy modes) if one starts to pay attention to them and learn their cliches.
you guys can go ahead and talk about them all you want I'll just play and write with em
Well if you're gonna do that, this:
QuoteThey represent an octave played using only the white keys
is not nearly good enough knowledge required to do so (actually it's not even correct, in more ways than one).
Need some help! This song confuses me, don't know what tempo and time signatures it's in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIErOhorUQE
It sounds like 4/4 or 12/8 (since there are so many triplets)
sounds like it might have a couple of cadenzas or it switches to like 3/4 occasionally, but for the most part it sounds 4/4 to me
4/4, I think..
I'd write it in 12/8, having duplets for where there are straight eights.
Ok so I sorted out the time signature problem by doing as Jompa said: writing it in 12/8 with duplets. However I have a small problem at the end of the song:
Around 0:20 there are some fast notes, and I don't know the note value of them, given that the previous notes were 16th notes(in 12/8 ofc.). They seem like a 16th quatruplet with 4 64th notes and one long punctuated 8th at the end, but I'm not sure. What do you guys think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIErOhorUQE
You should definitely just do a trill between those two notes before it lands at that echoing note (the echoing is in duplet eights, if you're going to include that).
well I just made as I said: quatruplets with four 64th notes+dotted 8th. And then I made the echo in the left hand clef. Looks ok I think. Here it is:[ZIP] (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Zelda%20Oracle%20of%20Season%20%26%20Ages/Knowledge%20of%20the%20Maku%20Trees.zip)
Definitely 4/4 with approx. 100 quarters per minute
I think it's a 4/4. Don't know however if it's a slow q≈50, or a fast q≈100.
Both kinda work, but I'd do 4/4.
In any case, it's definitely not a q=50. q=100
I also think 2/2 could work.....
It reminds me of a song I did once.....which was in 2/2.
4/4 works too! :)
Ok, thanks!
I've finished arranging this song but I don't know what tempo is most appropriate. Q approx 100, or a faster Q approx 200??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdFrlm-1U1k
Approx 100 for sure.
I'm having some trouble with the timing in this one.
4/4 swing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnCof15XO6Y
This one is giving me a bit of trouble. First off, should I notate the beginning in 12/8 or 4/4 swing? And secondly, the tempo is right at 131 BPM in the beginning section for a dotted quarter if notated in 12/8 or a quarter note in 4/4 with swing. However, at 0:21, it turns into 6/8. This poses a problem: if I notate the part after 0:21 in 6/8, then I can't put in the precise tempo because 131 is odd. Any help? I want to keep the tempo consistent yet precise.
Definitely not 4/4 swing. It's pretty rare to see swing without at least some reference to other jazz conventions, and this piece really has none. Also, if you already know it's going to be in a compound time (i.e. 6/8) later in the piece, it's pretty strange not to start that way, too, if that notation would work (not to mention, background strings start playing what would be triplet figures in 4/4 before then, anyways, so compound meter makes much more sense throughout). Though there's really nothing stopping you from putting the whole thing in 6/8; the difference between 12/8 and 6/8 in terms of accent patterns are even more subtle than those between 4/4 and 2/4. The reason 6/8 is more obvious for the second part is because the syncopation of the latter half of 12/8 would be much more awkward, but 6/8 still works just as well in the beginning.
TL;DR for the sake of cohesion and simplicity, I'd say go 6/8 the whole time.
As for tempo, I'm actually pretty confused as to your problem. Typically I round to an even number just for simplicity and because veeeeery few people would actually notice a 1bpm difference in tempo. But it doesn't seem like that's the issue you have with it; it sounds to me as if you think an original tempo of 131 wouldn't hold because of some change in pulse that would require a division of the tempo, but there is no change in pulse. Even if you started off in 4/4, (quarter = 131) would still carry over as (dotted quarter = 131).
As with most of my advice concerning metric notation, this can all be simplified down to this:
Y'all think too much. Occam's razor, yo.
In any case, it would be preferable if the tempo marking actually is a marking on a metronome! For many actual physical metronomes not every single number of bpm are options. For the slow tempo marks it can sometimes be every ten or twenty, while the medium and faster ones usually differ by 4. So if you use a marking that's on metronomes that'd probably solve your problem. A couple of bpm doesn't make any difference for the listener anyways, and no one will even play it exactly as that in the first place.
Also, I'd personally put 12/8 instead of 6/8.
EDIT: And btw: It doesn't change time signature at 0:21, it's the same as it's been up to now.
EDIT AGAIN: And the tempo isn't changing either.... so dotten quarter=131 is still correct here.. EDIT AGAIN: (which is what Fierce is saying..)
The problem is, using either 12/8 or 6/8 for the entire piece doesn't really cut it. While technically having the same tempo in terms of the notes themselves, the first section in 12/8 is not identical to the second section's 6/8. Should I keep it all in 12/8 with the same tempo, then the second section would be expressing 6/8 measures in 12/8. I can't really explain it that well, but I wouldn't use the same time signature and tempo combination for both of them.
EDIT: @Fierce, if I were to use 6/8, then yes both parts can accommodate 6/8, but one technically has a compound meter twice as fast. Therefore, I'd either have to change the time signature, the tempo, or just have one section just be notated in a different time signature, which makes it awkward.
But it is the same throughout!! 12/8 q=131 all the way is completely correct! 6/8 q=131 all the way would also work! Those two sections of the song aren't different in terms of time or compound meter at all!
I'll provide my arrangement so far to show this.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/61plufhfrrf2d47/Reaper%20Fortress.musx?dl=0&s=sl
As you can see, up to m11 everything is in the first section, arranged how it should be. Afterwards, while my issue is noticeable in the left hand, it's much more prominent in the right. Take a look at measures 15, 16, 19, and 20. The last three notes of each measure are forced to cross between the strong beats in 12/8 when in reality they are actually on the last three beats of a standard 6/8 measure. I hope this explains the problem.
I'd say it's fine to change time signatures even thou they are both compound, because the two themes have such a different character. The first part has somewhat of "march feel", you could even write it in 4/4 or 2/2 with triads. But at measure 11, it get's a different more flowy feel, and more broad phrases. You could also alter between those depending on the theme, because later the first theme comes back from times to times.
I'd say either 4/4 or 12/8 in the first, and 6/8 in the second, that way so make a clear distinction of the two.
Now that I think about it more, I think maybe it would be better to keep everything in one consistent time signature even if it does mess up the notation a bit, because the two themes end up playing simultaneously at one point. Thanks for the opinions.
Quote from: mastersuperfan on May 30, 2015, 03:13:43 PMThe last three notes of each measure are forced to cross between the strong beats in 12/8 when in
reality they are actually on the last three beats of a standard 6/8 measure.
But that's kinda not true. What you've written in the arrangement is correct after what I'm saying. The pulse of the song is still 12/8 q=131. Just the fact that it goes over the beats doesn't mean it is experienced as a difference time signature. This exact example isn't even uncommon!
EDIT: oh, you replied first.
For the sake of apathy, and because Jompa pretty much covered it:
syncopation ≠ different time signature (or tempo)
Like, I can't even open your file (finale 2011, yo), but it's very apparent that's where your confusion lies. The reason I'd advocate 6/8 throughout as opposed to 12/8 is because in 6/8, the three-quarter-note syncopation falls on every second measure after 0:21, as opposed to the second half of every bar in 12/8, which I think is less clean. But it's really not that consequential; again, the differences between 6/8 and 12/8 are especially subtle. But either in q. = 131 (or probably 132, because as Jompa pointed out, multiples of four are typically better for metronomes) would be significantly better than 6/8 at half of the tempo (and even if you were to divide the beats that way, 3/4 at the same eighth note speed as q. = 131 would still be better, because at least every other measure would fit that beat subdivision).
Like, I'm glad that you're doing it all in 6/8 now, but to teach you how to catch fish as opposed to simply giving you one, so to speak, I want to reiterate:
Syncopations are common, and are generally much easier to fit into a common time signature than you might think.
Quote from: FierceDeity on May 30, 2015, 01:27:03 PMY'all think too much. Occam's razor, yo.
On the topic of syncopation...
I've got 5/4 switching to 4/4 at the 0:11 mark but I can't help but feel I've got the rhythm completely off. It just sounds wrong.
MUS (https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3j6nv5u1h7h2hs/Donkey%20Kong.mus?dl=0)
Quote from: FireArrow on June 10, 2015, 03:23:41 PMOn the topic of syncopation...
I've got 5/4 switching to 4/4 at the 0:11 mark but I can't help but feel I've got the rhythm completely off. It just sounds wrong.
MUS (https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3j6nv5u1h7h2hs/Donkey%20Kong.mus?dl=0)
I think the problem might be that you got a wrong quintuple time signature. Try using 5/8 instead of 5/4, and the 4/4 as 4/4.
Maybe that would help. It's like the sixteenth notes in the bass are too slow, but too fast if I decrease the note value.
Nonononono, it's definitely 5/4. Double the note values and the tempo, put it in swing.
Oh wow, thanks! That explains a lot.
Like this? (https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3j6nv5u1h7h2hs/Donkey%20Kong.mus?dl=0)
I need help with rhythm of the melody in this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9SWsTx5R4w
here's my file: [ZIP] (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Wild%20Arms%203%20Only%20The%20Night%20Sky%20Knows.zip)
I only need help with measures 2 and 4, those are the measures I'm not certain about.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on June 15, 2015, 02:26:45 PMI need help with rhythm of the melody in this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9SWsTx5R4w
here's my file: [ZIP] (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Wild%20Arms%203%20Only%20The%20Night%20Sky%20Knows.zip)
I only need help with measures 2 and 4, those are the measures I'm not certain about.
Here's what I've got for just measures 2 and 4 changed: MUS (https://db.tt/3tZpC4HQ)
But I disagreed with some other things, so here's a sheet with some other changes: MUS (https://db.tt/7yRW4gmK)
Changed measures 5-7, and 12, so you can compare and contrast. Measure 12 I fixed up a rhythm, and in measure 5 I extended the length of the last note. Measure 6 is up in the air on whether you want to emulate how she sings the first word. The grace notes I removed because I just didn't hear those pitches in the song, but if you're sure on them, put them back in I guess. Measure 11 could be re-written to just be a grace note 'F' into 'G' I think.
Also, "The" shouldn't be capitalized. I'm not sure about whether "Arms" should be "ARMs" either, since that's what it's called in-game, but I've seen the game referred to as both, so I dunno.
Quote from: Maelstrom on June 15, 2015, 02:31:46 PMKey Sig
I thought I did this one already, but I can't find it. If I recall correctly though, it starts in 5 flats.
Thanks for the advices Echo :). What you did with the rhythm in measure 2 and 4, was what I started with, but I later changed it. I feel like the second note is longer than fourth note, so that's why I changed it, but later the notes in the 3rd and 4th beat, I think is correct as you'd done, with the F# at the last 16th, rather than on beat.
The ornamentation I've used, were somewhat what I think sounded good on piano with respect to the original song taken, but not necessary the "exact notes and pitch shifts" in the song. I will see later on when the song is complete what I'll do about them.
Yeah, I saw what you were going for, and I think it's a neat approach. Can't wait to see the finished piece, and good luck!
Since I'm going to try and arrange this,
I got the time sig as 4/4, but the key seems to elude me.. maybe F major?
You're correct. F Major
Quote from: mariolegofan on June 20, 2015, 05:50:09 PMYou're correct. F Major
Cool, thanks. The first 15 seconds or so is hard to tell the time signature, but I'm just going to write it in 4/4 for now.
The first part seems to be based on G major. It appears to do a few nice modulations before landing in F major for the rest of it.
Quote from: InsigTurtle on June 20, 2015, 08:18:35 PMThe first part seems to be based on G major. It appears to do a few nice modulations before landing in F major for the rest of it.
I was getting that vibe too
Quote from: mariolegofan on June 20, 2015, 08:20:47 PMI was getting that vibe too
As was I when I started arranging it. It's fun to arrange because now I'm also learning directly how compositions are structured
It begins in G-major, then goes to C-major, then there is a small part in Eb-major, before a long-lasting dominant chord to F-marjo appears (in other words: it's F-major here), and then it lands in F-major at about the halfway point of the song and stays there all the way through.
Quote from: Jompa on June 22, 2015, 06:08:52 AMIt begins in G-major, then goes to C-major, then there is a small part in Eb-major, before a long-lasting dominant chord to F-marjo appears (in other words: it's F-major here), and then it lands in F-major at about the halfway point of the song and stays there all the way through.
Agreed. I notated it as B flat for my purposes, but I may well change it anyways (it goes on long enough to mandate a key sig change IMO)
I suck at hearing chords, and I need to know the chords for this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9SWsTx5R4w
Would be really nice if anyone helped me out, or even just a part of the song.
Edit: Here's a version (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Wild%20Arms%203%20Only%20The%20Night%20Sky%20Knows.zip) of what I guess that the chords are. But I'm far from sure. Also, don't mind the melody or that the LH only consists of bass notes, I'll finish this once I have the chords down.
^ You seem pretty accurate with the chords. I could be wrong though, I'm a newbie arranger.
This feels like cut time or common time (equivalent time sigs anyways, I can always change it later if one turns out to be "better" for notation than the other) and C minor. Though with that e blues riff that was in Pyrite building, too..
I'd say common time, the percussion makes it feel like a 4/4 to me.
Yeah, I'd agree.
Many thanks~
@Tobbeh99
It's mostly not wrong, but some chords are wrong:
In measure#8: the chords are not B - E, it's Bm7 - Dmaj/E.
In measure#9: it's not just an F#m, it's F#sus - F#m.
In measure#12: the chords are not B - E, it's Bm7 - Gmaj (and the bass tone is a G).
In measure#13: it's not F#sus - F#m, it's just a measure-long F#sus. In the next measure (#14) this is resolved into a F# (not F#m).
Oh, thanks a lot Jompa! :) Now I'll continue with finishing the song. :)
Going to bed now, maybe I'll think of what it is in the morning.
The second theme seems to be in B major, though I could be wrong about.
G Minor for the first 30 or so seconds and I think it changes to G Major or C Major.....
Starts in C-minor (pedal basstone G, but C is the tonal center), mostly dorian-based, and starts being major right before that part that loops forever. After that it's kinda C-major (mixolydian) all the way, just with some funny harmony here and there.
I was wondering which blasted mode that was.
Many thanks. I'll probably just keep the key sig as C minor for now, may mess with it before I submit it though.
Time signature?? Part of me wants to say 5/4 but that doesn't always seem to work.
It sounds like 6/4 at the beginning and might change to 4/4 then later on
I get 3 measures of 6/4 then one measure of 5/4, then another 3 measures of 6/4 and another measure of 5/4. You could write the rest as 4/4, there's just quite a bit of syncopation.
When in doubt, look at the sheet!
Quote from: fingerz on December 10, 2013, 12:26:00 AMPokémon Mystery Dungeon: Red/Blue Rescue Team
Stormy Sea - [Original ZIP] (http://marioandluigi.wikidot.com/local--files/forum:thread/StormySea.zip) [Two Piano ZIP] (http://marioandluigi.wikidot.com/local--files/forum:thread/StormySeaDuet.zip)
Somehow I missed that there was a sheet for it. Thanks!
Nearly impossible to tell since there's barely anything going on.
I'm probably gonna do a bunch of the stuff from Fallout. That is, the unfortunately small selection of music they composed (though I still like it a lot) before putting in all the (awesome) old timey jazz.
4/4 F#major
Cool, thanks.
With the little B flat octave riff at the beginning (though if I'm notating it in F#, I suppose it'd be A#), I'm assuming that'd be a pick up measure?
Yep, and it seems it starts about a dotted quarter before the first measure
What I was thinking as well. Thanks!
Hey guys! So this one's a little tricky in terms of key signature, especially due to the fact that it is extremely short in nature. Since it doesn't really stay in one key for even a whole measure, I'm just trying to decide which one would make it the prettiest. Because as of right now in C major, there are accidentals all over the place. What key signature should I use?
Ok, now for a few rapid fire questions on time signature.
Firstly, should I go 4/4 or 2/4?
If 4/4: 3 measures at about 120bpm or 6 measures at 240bpm?
If 2/4: 6 measures at about 120bpm or 12 measures at 240bpm?
I'm thinking that somewhere around 120 would be more accurate for tempo, but that will lead to a lot of 16th notes (semiquavers).
(I know this is supposed to be about key/time signature and not tempo, but its kinda related, so I threw it in here.)
I know I'm outrageously over thinking this.....but what is the Time Sig?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnlpjqXHQnI
^Sounds like 3/4 to me, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
While I'm here, is this in D major?
Yes. D Major
Mobile Adapter 1:
No, it's not 3/4, it's 4/4. You can easily hear that at the part 0:28, and also in the bass.
Quote from: Magic Mole on July 14, 2015, 09:29:44 AM^Sounds like 3/4 to me, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 14, 2015, 02:50:18 PMMobile Adapter 1:
No, it's not 3/4, it's 4/4
Psssst
When somebody uses ^, they're referring to the post above them
Hell, they're usually referring to the one above them regardless, unless otherwise stated
(in other words, he was talking about MLF's piece, not his own)
SO.....4/4?
NO, your song mlf is in 3/4 or 6/8.
The song in 4/4 is Magic Mole's song from Pokémon Crystal.
@mlf yours is in 6/8. what i believe are pizzicato notes mark the beginning of a measure.
Ok. Thanks. I was 90% sure it was in 6/8 or 3/4.....odd.....I can usually figure it out myself :-[
Could somebody tell me what the key signature is for this? Thanks :)
C major
Mmk thanks, that's what I originally thought but I wanted to be sure
What time and key signature is this song in? Thank you.
For the intro it's 4/4 - it starts in C-major before taking a trip to F-major.
The part that repeats is in C-major, and the time sig is the following figure repeated over and over again: //: 7/4+7/4+6/4+6/4+7/4 ://
Thank you so muchh. :)
I'm gonna try to arrange a ton of stuff from Pokemon Colosseum, so any information as to the time signatures for this would be helpful.
Leaving for a bit, and if I could come back to some information I would love you all <3 <3
(But of course no worries if that isn't available)\
This one is most important right now :D
Not exactly sure how I'll notate all the sound effects and stuff, but I'll figure something out
Many thanks to anyone who helps me out with the signatures (or the arrangements, as I'll probably need help with them XD)
^All of those are either 4/4 or 12/8.
Can someone confirm with me that this is in G# minor? Every arrangement of it is in F# minor and it's driving me crazy.
Yeah, it does sound like it's in G# minor. No idea why others have it in F# minor.
I don't know anything about that song (I haven't listened to other videos), but for copyrighted anime songs it is very common for the uploader to pitch the song up or down a bit so that YouTube can't recognize the soundtrack as copirighted material, and then remove it. That may be the case with that video. There are actually more wrong-pitched versions of anime songs on YouTube than there are versions of the original. So yeah. Likely, that's the case.
Hah, you're right. When I listened to it directly from the episode (anime site) it was in F# minor. >_>
G# minor in that video.
Ditching Pokemon Colosseum for a little while in favor of simpler 8 bit music from the request board.
G minor 4/4
Um, what? No it's not. I've arranged this in the past and it's definitely 4/4.
EDIT: EDIT
The syncopation in the beginning got me ;p
gg fa
Just to check, would this song be better with the quarter equaling 150, or 75 while in 6/8?
It looks weird with 150, because all those LH arpeggios at the beginning are 16ths, but it still looks strange when put in 75.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umfc69VlAF4
I'm hearing 150 bpm personally. The arpeggios sound a bit like 1/4-subdivisions anyway, not 1/2-subs.
I think it's perfectly fine having them as 16ths notes, 16th arpeggios are quite common after all.
Ok. It's probably just my noob intuition, but it didn't really sound like 16ths to me. Guess I'll just leave it.
... unless you want to write it in 6/4, but it might be better to keep things simple and have it in 6/8.
Most importantly what key sig is this in (just want to check with you guys).
and this
^^
I actually did both these songs :P
The first one seems entirely percussion so it's a bit hard to tell really.
You may like Maestro's Virtuosic arrangement of the Airship theme, by the way.
Quick question, I'm hearing 4/4 G minor on this one (I know it's G minor just confused on time sig a bit) but it's making the beginning play out a bit funny. Any and all advice appreciated.
Quote from: skiaak on September 05, 2015, 08:10:47 PMMost importantly what key sig is this in (just want to check with you guys).
Airship
and Volcano Underground
Based on MLF's previous arrangements of these songs, the first is 1 flat and the second is no sharps nor flats (I say it that way because I don't know if they are different modes or simply major/minor).
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on September 05, 2015, 08:27:50 PMThe first one seems entirely percussion so it's a bit hard to tell really.
You may like Maestro's Virtuosic arrangement of the Airship theme, by the way.
Quick question, I'm hearing 4/4 G minor on this one (I know it's G minor just confused on time sig a bit) but it's making the beginning play out a bit funny. Any and all advice appreciated.
4/4 is correct. What's playing out weird?
Wtf is wrong with this song!?? What time signature does it go in??
First it seems like a straight 4/4, 2/4 but then like 9/8 and 6/8 and wtf?? I almost seems like the bass and the melody goes in different time signatures.
And also what key signature?? I'm guessing Eb-minor but I'm not sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFtY3-_RkRw
That is the weirdest song I've ever heard :P
It sounds like 4/4 all the way through and I have no clue about the Key sig.....again, very weird song.
I thought it sounded so straight-forward but when I started working with it, it turned out to be a completely different story.
Anyways forget the key sig, I'm sure it's Eb-minor but very chromatic song. But the time sig is a mystery. I'll have to try what seems most logical a looks best.
Here's how far I've come: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Prologue.zip
I haven't actually dived into the details of the song to say this - I'm just mentioning it:
Let's not forget that a song doesn't have to go in one time sig over the course of the song. That goes for key too.
In this song, the time sig is kinda irrelevant, as it never seems to ever settle on something (well, I don't really know that, though). Or something along those lines...
This sorta happens with the key too during some parts of the song, but the tonal center our minds always wanna go back to (and which the song actually does go back to, as well) is clearly Eb-minor.
Here's another version, I think this is better much more simple time signatures, but with an off-beat feeling in the melody in the first bars.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Prologue.zip
I've been going back and forth on this one. Do you guys think 4/4 or 12/8? That repeating phrase in the right hand led me to 12/8 when I originally thought they were triplets. But they aren't. They are a really ugly rhythm. I get to have fun trying to figure out the correct beaming for that one...
trying to count it in 12 would lead to a headache imo
I'm thinking it's 4/4 cuz I don't hear any triplets. Just wondering how you'd notate the percussion though...
I quite sure it's 4/4, hearing some 16th notes divided in groups of 4 here and there. And the high notes are some sort of triplets.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on September 12, 2015, 10:49:31 AMAnd the high notes are some sort of triplets.
Ok, I do agree with the time signature. But this, I have a different opinion on. The single bass part that plays in the first 2 measures sounds completely off when played against triplets. The only viable option would be eighth note triplets (4 groups of 3). Of course, I don't have the correct beaming (yet), but the rhythm that sounds correct in Finale is dotted 16th-dotted 16th-16th (x4). I think if you slow down the YouTube video to 50%, you can tell that they are not triplets.
Can you link a mus file of it, the results you've gotten so far, and it might be easier to help and see what's the problem is.
As weird as this may sound, it changes between the two at random times (rarely actually being a perfect version of either of them). That's what I hear at least. For the sake of nice sheet music, and that it really doesn't matter for the performer, I'd write it all as triples.
Quote from: Jompa on September 12, 2015, 11:06:38 AMAs weird as this may sound, it changes between the two at random times (rarely actually being a perfect version of either of them). That's what I hear at least. For the sake of nice sheet music, and that it really doesn't matter for the performer, I'd write it all as triples.
Thank you so much for saying this. I thought I was crazy for hearing this. I was like really confused with what to put because it did seem to lack consistency.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on September 12, 2015, 11:04:17 AMCan you link a mus file of it, the results you've gotten so far, and it might be easier to help and see what's the problem is.
Just so you know, this is not my song. I was just helping Oasis out with it when I stumbled across this weird thing. Going with what Jompa said, I have this kind of test mus file that kind of has 3 different options: one as triplets, one as non-triplets, and one with them combined. I agree with Jompa about the triplet thing looking nicer, but the triplets don't sound right with the first 2 beats of that bass part. Anyway, here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nd3ios7u9464c0i/Freezeflame.mus?dl=0) is the file.
Any thoughts? What's the final verdict?
I think this song is probably going to be one of the worst nightmares to arrange, but whatever. From what I've listened to and read about this song, it is mainly free time with occasional measures of 4/4 and 5/4 (No idea where these are, just read that). So, since it is most likely free time (if you detect that it isn't, enlighten me), should I give it a time signature? If I should, which one? And if it should be written as simply free time, how does one do that in Finale?
Why would you arrange this piece hahaha
Like I really enjoy how off the wall and quirky it is but I don't know that a piano arrangement is the best idea? If you're sure you want to, this piece has a few different options. The one I'm leaning toward is just not using any meter and notating it exactly how it sounds, since I can't see another way to arrange it that would benefit the pianist much. You could also just put the notes in, not strictly adhering to the piece's heard rhythm, and just say "improvise" in some of the expressive text. However, since our goal for this site is accuracy, the former is my vote.
Quote from: SlowPokemon on September 15, 2015, 07:14:24 PMWhy would you arrange this piece hahaha
IMMA STUPID HUMAN DEAL WITH IT! Besides, I'm the one who's gonna attempt to get the first accepted medley on site in ages...
if I found time to actually arrange it.Quote from: SlowPokemon on September 15, 2015, 07:14:24 PMLike I really enjoy how off the wall and quirky it is but I don't know that a piano arrangement is the best idea? If you're sure you want to, this piece has a few different options. The one I'm leaning toward is just not using any meter and notating it exactly how it sounds, since I can't see another way to arrange it that would benefit the pianist much. You could also just put the notes in, not strictly adhering to the piece's heard rhythm, and just say "improvise" in some of the expressive text. However, since our goal for this site is accuracy, the former is my vote.
I agree, the former is probably the best option.
Hey, another question, is this song in E major or E mixolydian? I hear a lot of D naturals in there (aka flatted seventh) so that is what leaned me towards the latter...
Mmm, you also have that b2 to worry about, so it wouldn't exactly be pure E mixolydian.
I'm not too familiar with key signatures of non-traditional western scales, but I just thought I should mention that.
Quote from: InsigTurtle on September 15, 2015, 07:32:56 PMMmm, you also have that b2 to worry about, so it wouldn't exactly be pure E mixolydian.
I'm not too familiar with key signatures of non-traditional western scales, but I just thought I should mention that.
It's ok, neither am I. I just take chances at sounding somewhat intelligent...usually I fail. :P
Quote from: SlowPokemon on September 15, 2015, 07:14:24 PMWhy would you arrange this piece hahaha
Trust me, we wouldn't be arranging it if we didn't have too :P
It's a replacement which has to be done in order for the Super Mario 64 Project to come to completion.
I found a couple of good pages for this issue:
Free Time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_time_(music)
Notating in Finale: https://www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/Finale2014Mac/Content/Finale/Chant.htm
Haven't read thoroughly but they seem pretty legit. Hiding measure lines, time signatures to create free time, maybe put some dashed lines or other stuff to help the performer see certain parts.
One other option could be to notate it completely accurate. Will probably be a bit messy with all kinds of time signatures.
Here is one example of a piece in free time: http://imslp.eu/Files/imglnks/euimg/c/cd/IMSLP237520-PMLP07506-Satie__Erik-Klavierwerke_Peters_Klemm_Band_1_04_Gnossiennes_scan.pdf
As for other exotic scales. If it is a scale with seven or less notes then it is pretty simple, just base it around a diatonic scale. An example: having an E-minor scale with a flat 2nd. Then use accidentals whenever that note shows up. Listening to the song I can tell that it is E is the root note, so I think it might be a wise idea to write it in E-major, especially if it's true what slow said that the song has other intervals and not being a straight mixolydian scale.
Here is an example of a song I arranged that goes in some Egyptian-like scale, I used accidentals to cover up the scale: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Yu-Gi-Oh%21%20Dark%20Duel%20Stories/Duel%21%20VS%20Shadi.zip
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on September 16, 2015, 05:58:01 AMAs for other exotic scales. If it is a scale with seven or less notes then it is pretty simple, just base it around a diatonic scale. An example: having an E-minor scale with a flat 2nd. Then use accidentals whenever that note shows up.
The thing is, that would be the Phrygian mode. We've had many a discussion over whether to notate pieces as if they are minor/major w/ accidentals, or show the mode in the key signature.
True, I think it's best to first write down the notes to see. If it's a diatonic mode, like phrygian, then the case is settled, if not we'll discuss it to find the best solution.
Not phrygian. Dominant-phrygian. Write it as E-major (this isn't lame-ass choir music).
bumping this sorry.
I need the time sig for this song. I'm not sure if 4/4 is right or not. It feels a little off somehow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6LmMCuGjfA&index=22&list=PLpJl5XaLHtLX-pDk4kctGxtF4nq6BIyjg
It's 4/4, just be careful of syncopation and tempo changes.
Key sig, anyone? I originally said D major; then I heard the other sharps and flats... :P Can anyone identify, does this ever settle on one key or does it just keep changing? Usually I'm good at these...
Anyone?
It centers around D Major, to be sure. It just likes using a D Major 7th chord as its root.
I hear it centering around F# later on around 1:00 (with a b7 though, perhaps mixolydian?) . It does go on a bit of a journey later on, but I'm too lazy to write down the changes.
I'd right it out in D or A major first, then it'll be easier to figure out exactly what's going on. where's jompa :x
For the first part it is in A-major. The chord progression here is Dmaj - C#m7, which is why some of you got the idea of D-major, but no, it's A. It pretty quickly goes on strange journeys that will only come to light while arranging the song, but for the beginning it always wants to go back to the Dmaj - C#m7 ostinat, so I'd just use A-major for all of that. At 0:36 the chord progression becomes Ebm7 l Fbmaj for a while, and here the key is Ab-minor, before briefly going back to the A-major ostinat again (Dmaj - C#m7) at 0:51. At 0:59 it goes to F#-major (mixolydian), and stays there throughout 1:14 (but it's not mixolydian anymore). At 1:28 it goes to Eb-major (mixolydian), with a time sig change 3/4. At 1:50 it's the A-major ostinat again (D-maj - C#m7), but in 3/4. It changes back to 4/4 two measures before the next part. At 2:05 it's back to F#-major (mixolydian), in 4/4 (like before). At 2:20 it's back to the start (A-major).
Quote from: Jompa on October 05, 2015, 02:43:32 AMFor the first part it is in A-major. The chord progression here is Dmaj - C#m7, which is why some of you got the idea of D-major, but no, it's A. It pretty quickly goes on strange journeys that will only come to light while arranging the song, but for the beginning it always wants to go back to the Dmaj - C#m7 ostinat, so I'd just use A-major for all of that. At 0:36 the chord progression becomes Ebm7 l Fbmaj for a while, and here the key is Ab-minor, before briefly going back to the A-major ostinat again (Dmaj - C#m7) at 0:51. At 0:59 it goes to F#-major (mixolydian), and stays there throughout 1:14 (but it's not mixolydian anymore). At 1:28 it goes to Eb-major (mixolydian), with a time sig change 3/4. At 1:50 it's the A-major ostinat again (D-maj - C#m7), but in 3/4. It changes back to 4/4 two measures before the next part. At 2:05 it's back to F#-major (mixolydian), in 4/4 (like before). At 2:20 it's back to the start (A-major).
This is why I ask for help ;D
I'm having trouble figuring out the time signature and tempo of the beginning part, especially since the tempo fluctuates so often and it's pretty much just one rhythm.
Once the melody gets started, it's in 6/8.
I'm aware of the time sig after the melody starts--although to me, it sounds like it's in 3/4. Admittedly, it does change to more of a 6/8 style (or a 3/4 twice as fast) later on, but I'm keeping it in 3/4 then as well for the sake of convenience.
I just can't figure out what it is at first.
Sounds like a cadenza to me.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on October 06, 2015, 05:39:46 PMSounds like a cadenza to me.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Quote from: mastersuperfan on October 06, 2015, 05:22:51 PMI just can't figure out what it is at first.
Sorry about that. Should of told you first of all.
lol okay ::)
In that case, how should I notate it?
Quote from: Olimar12345 on October 06, 2015, 06:20:56 PMlol okay ::)
Honestly, I didn't say it because I couldn't remember the name of it :c
I thought it was cadence at first #ultrafacepalm
Quote from: mastersuperfan on October 06, 2015, 06:46:14 PMIn that case, how should I notate it?
That might be tricky without the full version of finale. The gist of it would be to put it in one big measure and hide the huge time signature.
Hmm, I've been trying to notate it, but the tempo fluctuates so much that I can't make the rhythm accurate. How should I go about arranging it? Just a constant use of tempo expressions? Also, since it seems to be a bit slower than that of the main theme, should I change the tempo temporarily as well?
The rhythm doesn't have to be 100% accurate, since cadenza are usually played freely, without a strict rhythm, and the performer is supposed to accelerate and decelerate in the appropriate places.
IMO, having just the basic note values and adding "accel" or "rit" where necessary should be fine.
Does anyone know what this song is? I know I recognize it.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG757bPPXZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6uV-eMOEs
Granted, the FNAF version is transposed down a minor third, and it's a bit more jittery.
Yes, that's it!
Thanks. I knew I heard that before and I couldn't find it anywhere.
Should I notate this in 14/8 and 13/8, or 14/16 and 13/16? Or another way?
Well actually, it goes 1 measure of 14/8 followed by one of 13/8. That seems to repeat indefinitely. So, 27/8 or 27/16 would be my guess. I'd probably go 27/16 but I'd wait for someone else to verify.
Huh, wasn't thinking... Yeah, 27/16 would be more logical. :P
And upon arranging... the score becomes a train wreck. O.O How should I connect the sixteenth notes together, if at all?
Quote from: mastersuperfan on October 13, 2015, 07:11:12 PMHuh, wasn't thinking... Yeah, 27/16 would be more logical. :P
And upon arranging... the score becomes a train wreck. O.O How should I connect the sixteenth notes together, if at all?
I'll help you with that later...I gotta go to sleep :P I'll help tomorrow, unless someone gets here first!
Oh, god, this switches to 26/16 (14+12) partway through.
Now this is making me wonder if I should notate this in 27/16 and 26/16, or 14/16, 13/16, and 12/16. Anyone else have an idea on which one to use?
EDIT: Or it might be 25/16. It sounded like 26, but now I come up one note short when trying to notate.
Either way, I'll be gone for a while now.
EDIT AGAIN: It goes to 25/16 (13+12)... O.o
I feel like I should actually be notating it in 14/16, 13/16, and 12/16, because they definitely sound like very distinct measures. I'd like to get other people's thoughts on this.
I'd notate it as 14/8+13/8 for the A section, then 13/8+12/8 for the B section Although there's probably a more correct way of doing it.
Just regarding the beaming.
Note where the accented notes are.
In the first part, it goes something like
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Around 0:22 it then switches to something like
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Then it repeats.
Each measure begins with that "1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3" accent pattern.
Yeah, that's what I thought would be logical. Thanks for confirmation. The arranging itself is just about done, so I'm just cleaning it up and doing formatting and that stuff. It's not particularly hard to arrange, but the time signature is super tricky. :P
Am I correct in assuming that this song is in 13/8?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxAKSyMPNZk
Yeah. 7/8-6/8(3/4). 2+2+3+2+2+2
Should I write it in 13/8 or 7/8 and 6/8?
It's up to you.
Ok
I'm having trouble deciding which time signature this song fits best in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gFSWJGxMqQ
A fast (q.=150) 9/8 could do it, or maybe even 9/16 (8.=150) (I like the string triplets being 16th showing that they are quick) but it might be a bit too unusual. Also a slow (q.=50) 12/8 is also an option, but it works best in the beginning I'd have to change time signatures later on to 6/8 or 3/8. I leaning towards 9/16, but the only thing stopping me is if it's to unusual. So I'd like to hear you guys opinion.
9/8 would probably be the easiest to both write and read.
What? It's obviously in some form of compound meter. The melody comes in with a big 2-3-4-1 every other bar, with triplet subdivision underneath.
I'd say 9/8. It's more common and thus, as Jompa said, easier to read.
I have a question of my own:
What time sig should I notate this in? I'm thinking I should do 6/8, but a fast 3/4 might also work. Thoughts?
I'd probably go 6/8 because it has that triplet type feel that is associated with 6/8. Watch out though, because that 4 measure intro is in 4/4. And 4/4 shows up for a couple other 2 measure and 4 measure sets as well, so watch for those.
Quote from: TheMarioPianist on November 01, 2015, 02:23:28 PMI'd probably go 6/8 because it has that triplet type feel that is associated with 6/8. Watch out though, because that 4 measure intro is in 4/4. And 4/4 shows up for a couple other 2 measure and 4 measure sets as well, so watch for those.
I don't think it's 4/4, is it? I think the notes are dotted eighths in a 6/8 rhythm.
Quote from: mastersuperfan on November 01, 2015, 02:27:59 PMI don't think it's 4/4, is it? I think the notes are dotted eighths in a 6/8 rhythm.
Well, the percussion is playing a 4/4 type pattern and the huge tempo change from those sections to the 6/8 ones makes me think they are different time sigs as well. I don't hear any indication of 6/8 in those occasional sections.
Quote from: TheMarioPianist on November 01, 2015, 02:38:44 PMWell, the percussion is playing a 4/4 type pattern and the huge tempo change from those sections to the 6/8 ones makes me think they are different time sigs as well. I don't hear any indication of 6/8 in those occasional sections.
At 1:18, the accordion is playing a triplet-based rhythm on top of that lower part. I don't hear any tempo change at all, actually. If you notate them as dotted eighths in 6/8, then there is no tempo change.
You need to notate them in dotted quarters, not dotted eighths. Then you can keep the 6/8 throughout.
Quote from: InsigTurtle on November 01, 2015, 02:48:32 PMYou need to notate them in dotted quarters, not dotted eighths. Then you can keep the 6/8 throughout.
Then it doesn't match right with 6/8. The strong beats are 1 and 4 in 6/8. In that case, the melody would go like this:
1-2-
3-4-
5-6-
1-2-3-4-
5-
6When what I'm hearing is a 6/8 half as fast, with the melody playing like so:
1-
2-
3-
4-5-
6-
and
My bad, I thought you were talking about something else.
Thing is, about the opening, notating it in dotted eighths is rather awkward, since dotted quarters aren't usually divided into dotted eighths. 2:3 Duplets may be better, but then you'd have to deal with nesting and all that when that other voice pops in to say hello for a couple of seconds (with a triple feel).
Just some food for thought.
I tried making a table to show what I mean but the BBCode formatting didn't work so I deleted it.
Quote from: InsigTurtle on November 01, 2015, 04:01:02 PMMy bad, I thought you were talking about something else.
Thing is, about the opening, notating it in dotted eighths is rather awkward, since dotted quarters aren't usually divided into dotted eighths. 2:3 Duplets may be better, but then you'd have to deal with nesting and all that when that other voice pops in to say hello for a couple of seconds (with a triple feel).
Just some food for thought.
I tried making a table to show what I mean but the BBCode formatting didn't work so I deleted it.
Yeah, this is getting messy real quickly. It doesn't help that the bass line during the main part in 6/8 still plays a rhythm similar to that of the beginning section...
https://youtu.be/MHQoQd5UMe0
help pls
Your vid's broken on my side.
I think it's D major, then to Ab major at 0:27.
I'd write the time signature as 4/4 with swing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymY0FTTqLPU
Anybody wanna do me a solid and give me the key
The harmonies are very chromatic, so I'd suggest relying on the individual chords themselves to decide how to spell your accidentals. If the beginning is any indication though, perhaps taking a "flat-centric" approach might work in your favor.
F# minor, I'd say.
What key is this song in??
C major
Thanks!
Intro is in C minor doe then it kinda randomly switches between the two modes. Whether or not you want to notate that is up to you.
Since it's C Major a majority of the time, putting the intro in C Minor and changing to C Major is pointless.....imo.
It's not pointless when the first chord of the song is C minor, both options are valid.
Quote from: FireArrow on November 23, 2015, 12:42:39 PMIt's not pointless when the first chord of the song is C minor, both options are valid.
I mean if you change from Minor to Major.
Quote from: mariolegofan on November 23, 2015, 06:49:37 AMSince it's C Major a majority of the time, putting the intro in C Minor and changing to C Major is pointless.....imo.
Quote from: FireArrow on November 23, 2015, 12:42:39 PMIt's not pointless when the first chord of the song is C minor, both options are valid.
Guysit'sclearlyinCminorwithaPicardy3rdforlikethewholesong,duh
that'sonlytrueoftheintro
Yeah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTCSQevpuOg
I feel like I should notate this in cut time with half note = 112... Is it just me?
You might want to get a second opinion, but I agree; that does sound like cut time at half=112.
Haven't done any arranging for a while with my rather demanding piano repertoire, so while I practice, would somebody give me the time sig to this lovely thing out of the kindness of their heart? <3 Thanks friends~
I would say "yoomtah!" but it's the wrong game
Seems like good ol' 4/4 to me. (At least that's what Bespinben had when he orchestrated this one.)
Many thanks. Listening to it now; it's giving me lots of great ideas (<3 you Bespinben)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib5TBsN9qeo
Key sig from 0:44 to 0:59?
It's the same as the rest of the piece: 12/8 or 6/8
If you want to get really technical, it's either this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Dorian_scale) or this. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_scale) The fact that there are both Ebs and E naturals make it kind of confusing, and I am not by any means an expert here. Someone else let me know if any of these are reasonable...I would think it would make more sense to write it in C Dorian or C Mixolydian, unless the modes I linked above are more common than I think. I'd definitely wait for someone else to either second or refute this.
It's C-lydian. There are some notes used that aren't from C-lydian, but that is only because that second melody is always a major third beneath the melody - and so F, Eb and Bb are sometimes used under A, G and D, respectively.
So C-major.
Quote from: Jompa on December 01, 2015, 01:45:44 PMIt's C-lydian. There are some notes used that aren't from C-lydian, but that is only because that second melody is always a major third beneath the melody - and so F, Eb and Bb are sometimes used under A, G and D, respectively.
So C-major.
This is why I don't answer these questions. ;D
E major.
also try to avoid double-posting thanks
Thanks! (And sorry about that XD)
This song confuses me. Is it 3/4 or 6/8? Seem to go in both, or alternate constantly, or 6/8 in RH and 3/4 in LH at times. What do you guys think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-0uVT66vDU
I thinks it's 6/8. It has that constant 2/4 feel.
oh cool
this is actually similar to Ballad of the Goddess from Skyward Sword, where it can be counted in both. For this one 6/8 seems more appropriate imo and then you would just use triplets as opposed to 3/4 using dotted quarters or whatever
that might just be my bias for 6/8 speaking though maybe it's technically more correct to run it as 3/4 but I'm not a pedagogue
I'm thinking about having it 6/8 but having certain parts beamed as 3/4. Like the part at 0:41, it seems like the RH goes in 6/8 but the LH in 3/4. What do think about that option?
I mean, if the entire song can be counted in the same time signature idk why you would want to overcomplicate things
...I still don't feel qualified to give music advice.
Here is a Mus. of what I come so far and to show what I meant.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Wild%20Arms%203.zip
I think that way of writing makes it easier to read the LH rather than beaming it like 6/8, but the RH seems fine with 6/8.
Edit: I'm leaning towards writing this in 3/4 entirely. The accentuation in certain places plus the beaming gives me clues to think that this one is better written in 3/4. And the in 6/8 straight beats actually seems more like syncoped notes.
Apologies if I'm incorrect but I, too, am always hearing the two sets of quick 1-2-3 counts all throughout the song, so if I was arranging it I'd use 6/8 time. If the time would be changed to 3/4 then the 4th quaver in the bar is no longer accented and the melody line makes no sense. However, I see what you mean about the accompaniment sounding like 3/4. Perhaps you could add the syncopated rhythm into the left hand while keeping it all in 6/8 time? (Haha, I just realised that this is the opposite of what you said in your edit. It's a brain teaser, isn't it? xP)
Y it's a tricky song. Here's the final result if you want to take a look, I ended up writing it in 3/4:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Wild%20Arms%203/There%27s%20Only%20One%20Family%20Named%20Schr%C3%B6dinger.zip
I think "tricky" is a bit of an understatement. :P It sounds colossally difficult to play, but is so amazing! I've always loved the kind of fast-paced, dramatic JRPG-like soundtracks such as this one, really cool. It stills sounds like 6/8 time for me in some places though, but I think it's best I jump out of that debate, it's just messing up my mind now. xD
Y I agree that it is very difficult to play, I'm considering tweaking it at certain parts to make it more playable. This is one of the songs that I think would benefit a lot from the Easy Versions Idea (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=7151.0).
Spoiler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3jZDthZxNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXZbQ0ZI4E4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HubULBtmfNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI5fmM0J3cY
I need the time signatures for these songs. I can probably figure out the time signatures by myself.
Copyright and arranger info is also appreciated because I can't find it ._.
Gooper Blooper is in 12/8.
I'd notate Surfshine Harbor in 6/4, but it might be good to get someone else's opinion on that first.
Blue Skies, White Clouds is just in 4/4.
Copyright seems to be Nintendo, Intelligent Systems, and Vanpool © 2012.
According to BrawlBRSTMs3, the full list of composers is:
Masanori Adachi, Yasuhia Baba, Hiroaki Hanaoka, Kiyoshi Hazemoto, Saki Kurata, Horoki Morishita, Shoh Murakami, Kosei Muraki, Tomoko Sano, Yoshito Sekigawa, Yasumasa Yamada, Koji Kondo
...Someone might want to look into that a little more.
Quote from: mastersuperfan on December 20, 2015, 04:58:19 PMI'd notate Surfshine Harbor in 6/4, but it might be good to get someone else's opinion on that first.
I'd just do 3/4.
Quote from: braixen1264 on December 20, 2015, 04:20:10 PMSpoiler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3jZDthZxNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXZbQ0ZI4E4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HubULBtmfNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI5fmM0J3cY
I need the time signatures for these songs. I can probably figure out the time signatures by myself.
Hehe, Paper Mario!
6/4 would be cool though.....
Gooper Blooper's intro is so fucking weird to arrange...
Just making sure that the key is C major like the sheet on site suggests, and I'd like someone with experience to verify it:
C major is correct.
Thanks!
I need the key and time signature for this song!
C# Minor and 4/4.
It could be notated in 2/4, but I would personally put it in 4/4.
Quote from: mariolegofan on December 23, 2015, 02:15:23 PMIt could be notated in 2/4, but I would personally put it in 4/4.
I think I will stick with 4/4.... It's much easier with notepad to do it that way...
Wait..... What's the difference between major and minor key signatures??
Try editing your posts instead of double posting. [emoji14]
Quote from: BrainyLucario on December 23, 2015, 02:22:38 PMWait..... What's the difference between major and minor key signatures??
I'd say the mood and chord progression, but if you want a more in depth explanation then someone else could explain it to you (because I can't)
Quote from: Zeila on December 23, 2015, 02:43:31 PMI'd say the mood and chord progression, but if you want a more in depth explanation then someone else could explain it to you (because I can't)
Thanks! Don't worry... I got E. Gadd to answer that one for me
Quote from: BrainyLucario on December 23, 2015, 02:22:38 PMWait..... What's the difference between major and minor key signatures??
Well the key signatures doesn't change if it's major or minor, C-major and A-minor share the same key signatures (no flats or sharps). The differences between major and minor lies in the scale/intervals, for example the major scale has a major 3rd, 6th and 7th, the minor has a minor 3rd, 6th and 7th.
If you're talking about finale, it's just that you can chose to see the key signatures as major or minor. There is no actual difference I believe. You can write a song in C-major in an A-minor key signature.
I need another key signature and time signature, I'm still learning how to tell.
A Major, 4/4 time.
Actually, I though it would be D major? Would that be acceptabe?
...no. No, the piece is in A Major. You can't arbitrarily change key sigs like that.
Yeah, I should stick with your judgement. Thanks again!
Edit: Nice vocabulary by the way.
Dudeman's right, can't do that.
I'm sure this is 4/4, the only thing I'm still a little unsure about is the key signature.
*hint hint* (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/2356)
Oh, woopsie. That answers it!
I know this is in 6/8 (then it goes to 4/4 I believe), but what is the key signature? Is it C major? A minor? F major? Idunno. Also just to confirm, the official name is "Lake" right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luKuQNEuXBA
Quote from: Zeila on December 25, 2015, 07:23:44 PMthe official name is "Lake" right?
This is correct. Composer: Go Ichinose.
I'd say to notate it in F major. That's what it sounds like to me most, though it does modulate a bit.
How about this one? I need the key signature, the time signature, and if possible the metronome marking, I suck at telling what they are.
F Major, 4/4 time. Question: do we really need a separate arrangement for the "Dunked On" version of Dogsong? I honestly think that the Undertale sheet list is going to be overwhelmingly large if we included every single variation included in the game. Shouldn't we just be arranging the official soundtrack? (with maybe a few of the jingles included?)
As for the tempo, you should find a good tempo tapper and measure it out for yourself. I like to use this one (http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm).
That would have to be Yug_Guy's call.....
We are still going to have over 100 songs to arrange if we do that.... (minus the completed ones)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZrD4cs8DoU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7FkBLIZThY
Thanks in advance! (only looking for key signatures)
First one starts in C minor and goes to F minor.
Second one is in E major.
Need keysigs n' stuff, though I won't get around to arranging until I get back.
scratchwork for first couple of measures (https://www.dropbox.com/s/sur1mgtty5li41s/Battle%21%20%28Team%20Galactic%29%202.mus?dl=1)
I'm hearing 4/4, Ab/G# minor. Though Ab minor's probably a nightmare to notate so I'd go with G# minor.
Ninjad
Sounds like Ab minor, 4/4 for the first 17 seconds that I listened to.
Awesome I guessed G# minor! I'm getting better at this lol
also I wanted to know if it changes somewhere in the middle but I guess it's not that urgent
It does shift a little, but not for long enough that it warrants a complete key change in the music. I specifically listened for that.
Erm... 4/4, 2/4, or 2/2 time? My intuition leads to 2/4 but I don't know. Also no clue what the key sig is, C Major is working fine for me at the moment.
Definitely 4/4 C major.
Seemed like 2/4 because in the percussive part at the start there was a 3-click pattern that happened once going over a 4/4 barline and once in a bar. Thanks for the help!
I need to know the key signature of this song...
Any chance I could also get the Time and Key Signature for this piece?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l60vnujrqu8
Key Signature? Is there a pickup measure and if so how many beats?
BrainyLucario: C major, 4/4
Braix: E minor. Sounds like there's some ambiance before things get started. Is that what you're talking about?
Quote from: Olimar12345 on January 11, 2016, 09:16:46 PMSounds like there's some ambiance before things get started. Is that what you're talking about?
Yeah. Also I meant to ask for time signature not key signature whoops
Time could be either slow 4/4 or moderate 2/2 (I'd probably opt for the cut time).
As for the introduction, I'm sure you could count it out somehow, but it doesn't sound like it established a set tempo/time until 0:06. I'd make the introduction a slow, cadenza-like pick up, each note getting a beat, then set the tempo when things actually happen.
sounds like a fermata type note followed by a 3 4+ pickup measure that plays at a different tempo
C major. No flats, no sharps. Though that Bb makes it sound mixolydian, C is tonic and it should be displayed as such.
I'm 99% sure the answer is:
Quote from: Olimar12345 on January 19, 2016, 06:24:17 PMC major. No flats, no sharps. Though that Bb makes it sound mixolydian, C is tonic and it should be displayed as such.
Yes, the same answer.
I bet if you had this one claimed you'd be asking for this next:
Spoiler
Quote from: mastersuperfan on January 23, 2016, 10:12:22 AMI bet if you had this one claimed you'd be asking for this next:
Spoiler
Heh. (Too bad it's already mine!)
Nope! I have no desire for Yoshi Circuit. However, I'll be looking for Tick Tock Clock afterward. XD
I need key sigs and time sigs for songs! I can work on it by hand while i'm grounded
1.) D minor, 6/8 (or 12/8, I can never figure out which one I should choose)
2.) A minor, fast 4/4.
3.) C major, can't exactly figure out time sig.
Thanks. I'll look into the 3rd time signature, I need to try and learn how to do that anyway
Quote from: AwesomeYears on January 25, 2016, 12:33:35 AM3.) C major, can't exactly figure out time sig.
Sounds like a fast 6/8 to me.
I just want to give a tip to all those who need help with key and time signature, basically show the way I do.
For key signature: I usually start picking out notes and eventually I see what key sig it should be in. For example if you have a song with reoccurring Bb and Eb, chances are that that song is in Bb-major/G-minor. A second tip is to see what chord it starts on, if the song also starts on a Bb-major chord, then it is probably in Bb-major (2 flats).
For time signature: Try locating the strong beats and the phrases, often these are played by the bass. In 4/4 it's 1 and 3, in 6/8 it's 1 and 4. try also listen if it's a simple or compound meter, by that I mean if it's a time signature that has 2 8ths (or 16ths) for every beat (simple), or if it has 3 8ths per beat (compound). Examples of simple time signatures are: 4/4, 2/2, 2/4, 3/4. Examples of compound time signatures are 6/8, 9/8, 12/8. It could also be an odd meter, like 5/4 and 7/8.
You get better hearing this by time, and hopefully can by able to pick up the time and key signatures on your own.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on January 25, 2016, 08:43:42 AMI just want to give a tip to all those who need help with key and time signature, basically show the way I do.
For key signature: I usually start picking out notes and eventually I see what key sig it should be in. For example if you have a song with reoccurring Bb and Eb, chances are that that song is in Bb-major/G-minor. A second tip is to see what chord it starts on, if the song also starts on a Bb-major chord, then it is probably in Bb-major (2 flats).
For time signature: Try locating the strong beats and the phrases, often these are played by the bass. In 4/4 it's 1 and 3, in 6/8 it's 1 and 4. try also listen if it's a simple or compound meter, by that I mean if it's a time signature that has 2 8ths (or 16ths) for every beat (simple), or if it has 3 8ths per beat (compound). Examples of simple time signatures are: 4/4, 2/2, 2/4, 3/4. Examples of compound time signatures are 6/8, 9/8, 12/8. It could also be an odd meter, like 5/4 and 7/8.
You get better hearing this by time, and hopefully can by able to pick up the time and key signatures on your own.
^I'm saving this, btw.^
Not quite sure b/c of the modulations...
I need a time and key sig for this song, as well.
I need the time sig for this one instead please...
4/4, but the intro's a little wonky. I think the first two quick notes are a pickup.
I derped. I meant key signature... Sorry...
B-major, but I think it modulates later on to A-major or something.
A-minor I think.
time signature.. I don't know, the song doesn't go in a strict time signature/tempo. If you want it really accurate I think it requires many time signature changes, another option is to simplify the rhythm and write rubato in the beginning indicating that the tempo is a bit free.
I think the second part at 0:09 goes entirely in 4/4 however. The first part, I don't know.
Here is the entire version, Brainy, with the correct title.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG757bPPXZQ
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on January 28, 2016, 09:52:04 AMA-minor I think.
time signature.. I don't know, the song doesn't go in a strict time signature/tempo. If you want it really accurate I think it requires many time signature changes, another option is to simplify the rhythm and write rubato in the beginning indicating that the tempo is a bit free.
I think the second part at 0:09 goes entirely in 4/4 however. The first part, I don't know.
Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to disagree. I'm definitely getting F as the tonic.
It's actually not a minor key, it's F major. It may be in 3/4.....but since this song is pretty wonky, I'm not 100% sure.
Here is the original song which this video game song was derived from:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6uV-eMOEs
Sounds like F major/D minor to me (seems to switch between them, but the key signature won't change).
So, bit of a complex question here. I'm planning to arrange this song from the first Bioshock:
And then I found out that the composer has released the scores for it!
http://garryschyman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/garryschymanbioshock.pdf
But, as you can see, he has it in 4/4 with groups of 6 all over the place. Theory nerds will be quick to spot that that's technically incorrect, especially as it's literally the entire piece's motif.
So, question; should I do it as the composer has, with 4/4 and groups of 6, 12/8, or 6/8? I bring up 6/8 because there are a couple half measures (and one 3/4 measure) in the manuscript where Schyman goes into 2/4 or 3/4, and having a "shorter" time signature would allow for those measures to exist w/o messing with the time signature.
For the moment, I'm doing 6/8 for that reason. Would love to hear your thoughts.
I mean both works I guess. But I think it's fine if you want to do it in a compound meter.
Well both 12/8 and 6/8 are in compound meter. I'm just gonna do it in 6/8 so I don't have to do a half measure later. The piece is organized in long cells anyways, might as well.
I need the key signature for this song, thanks in advance!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2bsybeS2yY
Sounds like C phrygian, notated with accidentals and a key signature of no sharps or flats.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on February 03, 2016, 05:36:25 PMSounds like C phrygian, notated with accidentals and a key signature of no sharps or flats.
Ehhhhh but isn't C phrygian supposed to derive from C minor? 3 flats? Didn't that book you posted in the Ocarina Melodies thread have that? :p
Correct! I misspoke. It is a minor mode. Thank you!
I need the time signature /key signature for this song.
Thanks!
There are probably a couple different ways this song's time sig could be put, but I would recommend 6/8 at 54 BPM.
EDIT: Key signature is A Minor (no flats/sharps).
Quote from: Sebastian on February 11, 2016, 11:13:55 AMThere are probably a couple different ways this song's time sig could be put, but I would recommend 6/8 at 54 BPM.
And what about the key signature?
smooth edit skills
Quote from: BrainyLucario on February 11, 2016, 11:15:07 AMAnd what about the key signature?
Sorry about that.....guess I didn't edit quick enough :P
It's in A minor (no sharps/flats.)
C Major and 4/4 at 100 BPM. Since it sounds like it's in 2, I'd notate it in 2/2 at 100 BPM.
Just to clarify, I believe this is in 10/8, but I heard that the pattern is also common in 5/4 time. Other than that, I need the key sigs for both songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y49b8aiQVBg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftyE2w1CUFs
Thanks!
The 1st song is IMO best notated just chromatically with sharps and flats.
Second one is E flat minor/D sharp minor.
Yay CotN! I should compose some of the music as well :P
Time sig? I wanna say something like 9/8, but they kinda feel like triplets.
Also, suggestions on composer name spelling while I'm here? I've seen: Ko Otani, Koh Ohtani, Koh Otani, Kow Otani, Kou Otani, Kô Ôtani, Kō Ōtani, etc...
Japanese Characters: 大谷 幸
His Wikipedia page says Kow Otani, as does his VGMdb page.
I'd personally go with 9/8 here.
I actually don't know if you should go with the way the composer chooses to render their name, which appears to be Kow Otan, or if you should go with the way they are credited in the game, which appears to be Kō Ōtani. Although, the most common romanization nowadays would be Kō Ōtani in western naming order (in Japanese, the order is family name before given name). The other spellings come from different romanization types.
The Sunlit Earth:
It almost seems like a 6/8 but as a compound time signature, that would be 18/16. But later in the song it seems a bit more like a 9/8, which I'd go with since it's much more common. You could also do 3/4 or 6/8 with triplets, but there's really no need to since the song contains constant triplets so you could just write it as 9/8 for simplicity.
I didn't know where else to post this, so I'll post it here.
I have a question about my arrangement.
Spoiler
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/lxyvoagysb2wdl2/Screenshot%202016-03-02%2011.28.50.png?dl=1)
Should the Bbs in 18, 22, and others like it be A#s (The B in the right hand and the A# in 23 is what tipped me off)? In 23 I put an A# because of the B in the next measure and because it's an ascending passage.
I think the Bbs should be A#s.....am I correct?
EDIT:
Original if you need it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6hsdWGF0no
Since the piece is in a sharped key signature, I would recommend using A#'s instead of Bb's.
Quote from: Dudeman on March 02, 2016, 10:13:52 AMSince the piece is in a sharped key signature, I would recommend using A#'s instead of Bb's.
nay nay my friend. That's not how it works.
Here's what I'd do:
mm. 18 LH: Bb's as written, since it sounds like a lowered fifth rather than a raised fourth.
mm. 18 RH: B natural as written (with a courtesy natural). That is just V - i (easy)
mm. 22 LH: keep the Bb's, since it's an ostinato (a figure that repeats underneath the melody).
mm. 23 RH: keep the A#. Chromatic ascent.
tl;dr (hardly) you had it right the first time.
Quote from: Dudeman on March 02, 2016, 10:13:52 AMSince the piece is in a sharped key signature, I would recommend using A#'s instead of Bb's.
I don't think that's how it works.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on March 02, 2016, 12:03:14 PMnay nay my friend. That's not how it works.
Here's what I'd do:
mm. 18 LH: Bb's as written, since it sounds like a lowered fifth rather than a raised fourth.
mm. 18 RH: B natural as written (with a courtesy natural). That is just V - i (easy)
mm. 22 LH: keep the Bb's, since it's an ostinato (a figure that repeats underneath the melody).
mm. 23 RH: keep the A#. Chromatic ascent.
tl;dr (hardly) you had it right the first time.
Hmmmm, that doesn't seem right because of measures 31 & 32. Measure 31 sounds like a Bb major chord and 32 sounds like a B major chord.....unless I have those measures wrong.
Finished sheet:
[MUS] (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ovykgkg2r41wt75/GoldenEye%20007%20%28N64%29%20-%20Cradle.mus?dl=1)
\
Just need help with the beginning. How should this be notated? It clearly goes into 3/4 after, but I'm not sure what to do about the beginning bit.
I'm not sure in this specific case. But for these kinds of sections I usually try to find the closes tempo + time signature and change if needed to make it as accurate as possible but also not too complicated. I often also try to make the notes on strong beats, unless they feel like they're on a weak beat.
I think it's some sort of 5/4 and then 3/4's and later I think there is a 4/4 as well. You can also write rubato, indicating that the tempo is a bit loose.
I hear it all as a slightly quicker 3/4 than the rest of the piece, with a ritard towards the end.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on March 28, 2016, 06:15:19 AMI hear it all as a slightly quicker 3/4 than the rest of the piece, with a ritard towards the end.
I agree; I'm hearing a quicker 3/4 as well.
Also, I kind of have my own question.
In this song, I'm pretty confident that the beginning key sig is Ab major (even though there are some D naturals). The second and third keys that it goes into are where I get a little confused. The original sheet on site (this is going to be a replacement) has the second key as E major, but I was thinking it could range anywhere from A major to B major (in terms of sharps). For the final key signature, The sheet on site has Ab major, but based on the first chord in that key I thought it should be Db major. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
Can't listen to it right now because I'm not at home, but from memory I can confirm that the first section seems to be Ab major.
I'll check the other sections when I do get home.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blge4fEHzoo
time signatures?
I thought 4/4(85bpm) and 6/8 but those are just guesses.
4/4
tempo seems to be around 88
Btw time signature changes at 1:20
oh
huh well it's probably 6/8
It's definitely 6/8 at 1:20.
Oh, yeah, I've almost completed this one.
It's 4/4 until minute:seconds and then 6/8 until repeat
yay I guessed 6/8 correctly thanks guys
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on March 28, 2016, 02:30:06 AM\
Just need help with the beginning. How should this be notated? It clearly goes into 3/4 after, but I'm not sure what to do about the beginning bit.
With this track, what do you all think is the rough BPM?
I'm clocking it at approx. 74 BPM.
Hm.. how would one write this, then? I'm doing two layers right now and it's getting frustrating.
Are both of these in C minor? If not, what key are they in? Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yttJQRZ5cM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXsBks4HRls
ahhhh ok I guess you can arrange plague of shadows music because technically it's not shovel knight
I noticed Pianist Da Sootopolis ask about Saying Goodbye on this thread, and a few days ago they had to cancel doing my request. Would you recommend me trying it myself? I don't have Finale (yet), and Saying Goodbye doesn't really sound good for a beginner. Still, I'll keep a note of the time signature and beats per minute somewhere, just in case.
Now that I think about it, the melody vaguely sounds like Staven's Theme...
it's always good to try it yourself, but like I said in that request thread, I've added it to my Agenda (which is a real life sticky-note object on my wall containing a list of songs I'm planning to arrange)
In response to Zeila...
I'm pretty sure the diamond/pearl legendary trio theme starts in c minor but then has some funky modulations into majors and then back into minors so from an 'avoiding accidentals' point of view c minor would probably be the best.
Shovels seems to be based around Db major (at least that works most when playing the piano whilst it's playing)
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on April 01, 2016, 10:59:35 AMit's always good to try it yourself, but like I said in that request thread, I've added it to my Agenda (which is a real life sticky-note object on my wall containing a list of songs I'm planning to arrange)
Okay. You didn't post on the thread after Sootopolis resigned, so I wasn't sure. Thanks.
If I ever try to make sheet music, I'll probably start with something simple, like Wild World hourly music. Maybe.
Btw.....
Is this song (which I took to be 8/4) mainly 2+2+2+2 beats or 3+3+2. I'm currently arranging it and need to know where the strong beats are. I have a hunch that it swaps in and out several times in the piece but just need someone to verify. The first bit is defiantly 2+2+2+2 but then there are the chords...
I think 4/4 works fine, and also more common than 8/4.
k thanks, I'll see how it looks :)
Quote from: Zeila on April 01, 2016, 08:09:48 AMAre both of these in C minor? If not, what key are they in? Thanks!
Shovel Knight is D flat, starts with an A flat section though. Lake Trio is definitely c minor
Quote from: TheMarioPianist on March 28, 2016, 07:15:09 AM
In this song, I'm pretty confident that the beginning key sig is Ab major (even though there are some D naturals). The second and third keys that it goes into are where I get a little confused. The original sheet on site (this is going to be a replacement) has the second key as E major, but I was thinking it could range anywhere from A major to B major (in terms of sharps). For the final key signature, The sheet on site has Ab major, but based on the first chord in that key I thought it should be Db major. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
Anyone figure these out yet?
I'd put the second key as A Major even though it switches back and forth between that and B Major, and the final one is probably best as Ab Major because the section in question is 10 quick measures long and shifts between the IV and V chords of that key signature (and is in the V chord, Eb Major, more often than not), eventually resolving back to the tonic chord.
I thought this would be a good candidate for my hypothetical first sheet music. While it's mostly the same as Zelda's Lullaby, the second melody(?) is absent. I don't want to use pre-existing, fanmade sheet music as reference for my own because that'd feel like stealing. DX
The guitar could give us a hint as to what the time signature is. It
sounds like a whole note, an entire measure/bar (not sure which one is which) in 4/4, but Zelda's Lullaby is actually in 3/4 time.
You can count six 8th notes per measure, so that's a clear indication you're hearing 3/4. It's good you're trying to figure this out on your own!
Thanks! Of course, I might end up figuring out the notes just to make a remix. XD Still, trying is good. The low-pitched string instrument(?) might be a bit hard to figure out, mind.
Deku Trombonist, would you object to me using your Princess Zelda's Rescue sheet music for reference?
(Someone with great video editing talent needs to make a montage of all the scenes where Zelda's Lullaby plays while each version of that music plays in succession, with seamless transitions.)
or the part where she turns into a ghost and flips out and flies up in the air and wastes like 10 minutes of your time just cause she's a prissy little drama queen
Imagine: Lorule Spirit Tracks.
Does Finale cost anything?
Quote from: Nitro Indigo on April 02, 2016, 07:48:57 AMDoes Finale cost anything?
Notepad, no. But Notepad unfortunately sucks and also does not allow you to do everything the formatting guidelines require unless you use a template.
I'm sure some of the mods would be willing to help you out by filling in the features absent from Notepad.
Quote from: Dudeman on April 01, 2016, 10:11:25 PMI'd put the second key as A Major even though it switches back and forth between that and B Major, and the final one is probably best as Ab Major because the section in question is 10 quick measures long and shifts between the IV and V chords of that key signature (and is in the V chord, Eb Major, more often than not), eventually resolving back to the tonic chord.
That makes sense. Thanks!
Quote from: SlowPokemon on April 02, 2016, 08:32:42 AMI'm sure some of the mods would be willing to help you out by filling in the features absent from Notepad.
Yep, doesn't even have to be a mod. If you shoot me a PM, I can add any features you need if Notepad can't do it! (Or pretty much anyone with a full version, for that matter.)
I probably won't end up making sheet music for Zelda Wondering (is Finale easy to get used to?), but I'm still trying to figure out the notes of it for a remix I might make. Does the base line go eighth1-eighth2-eighth1-eighth2-quarter1? "2" being an unknown note that's higher than "1", also unknown. I have the pattern as eighthD-eighthF-eighthD-eighthF-quarterD, but the notes could be anything. Don't tell me what they are, because I'd like to figure the actual note names out for myself, I'd just like to know their relative pitches. It almost sounds like there's a beat at the start of the baseline that's being obscured by the guitar.
Quote from: Nitro Indigo on April 02, 2016, 11:14:12 AMDoes the base line go eighth1-eighth2-eighth1-eighth2-quarter1? "2" being an unknown note that's higher than "1", also unknown. I have the pattern as eighthD-eighthF-eighthD-eighthF-quarterD
As far as I can tell the bass line is definitely 8th+8th+8th+8th+8th+8th (straight quavers) and they're based around a triad sometimes in major and sometimes in minor. When there is a harmonising note to the bass note it seems to be a major third above the top note of the triad making a minor into major effect (or vice versa). Using the way you wrote it above I would say: eighth1-eighth2-eighth3-eighth2-eighth3-eighth2 in
mostcases, with the first note being covered by a guitar (it's not a rest) but I might just be hearing things :-\
Quote from: Nitro Indigo on April 02, 2016, 11:14:12 AMIs Finale easy to get used to?
I would say so but I haven't used notepad I started with Finale PrintMusic 200(8)?, it's based around different windows containing specific 'tools' that's easy to navigate (and in my opinion much quicker)
Hope I have helped, somehow ;D
btw nice signature
...Does that basically mean there's some sharps in the baseline? I don't know musical theory terminology much, though I am starting to pick some terms up.
because of the key the tune starts in (e minor) there should only be one recurring sharp that you would need to worry about, so usually, when the bass is a major triad then yes there will be sharps
....sorry I don't feel I've explained very well
To Wikipedia!
QuoteIn music, a triad is a set of three notes that can be stacked in thirds.
So eighth1 is actually three notes...?
The use of sharps (and flats) will be wholly dependent on the notes themselves being used. I can say with certainty that an F# does crop up every now and again in the bass.
ninja'd
Quote from: Nitro Indigo on April 02, 2016, 02:17:33 PMSo eighth1 is actually three notes...?
Well no, the piece is in 3/4 (three beats, and the quarter note has the beat) and there are six notes being played in each measure. Each note in the bassline is an eighth note.
EDIT: Oh wait, a
triad. I read that as "triplet." Oops. Yes, the on-beats in the bassline consist of...actually, I think most of the time they're just two notes. I know you said you don't want the notes themselves given to you, but it might help your comprehension if someone writes up a quick visual of what the bassline is.
Let me rephrase that: Is eighth1 three notes being played at the same time?
I edited my post just as you were posting; give it a read. I misread something.
Okay then. Now that I've decided that I won't be making sheet music (I'm fickle), I suppose knowing the notes outright wouldn't hurt. But why do I only want to know the baseline? You'll see...
Here's a mockup of the bassline:
Spoiler
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7CZIYHf.png&hash=557929d89fb81a8b9b9df4b27eb23d30967a8d12)
I whipped up an MUS file as well for you to look at in case you need to hear the notes as well:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/134076008/Helps/zelda%20wondering.mus
I don't have any software that can open a .mus file. Still, thanks for the baseline.
Quote from: Nitro Indigo on April 03, 2016, 12:32:51 AMI don't have any software that can open a .mus file. Still, thanks for the baseline.
You should definitely download Notepad even if it's just so you can play .mus files. Tbh, that's its only redeeming feature :P
There's always free trials of Finale's 3 paid products too, those'll get you a good season of use which sounds like way more than you need
I've been putting the baseline into FL Studio. It is six repeating measures, right? Just to save me some time.
To be honest, the GUI of Finale is really off-putting if you're new to the program. You should definitely learn a notation software though, as it will help you develop musically. I actually started off using Sibelius, and *then* moved to Finale after discovering NSM. Lots of other people here started off with Musescore, another good (and FREE) program that is accessible to beginners.
Oh yeah, MuseScore is tons better than Notepad. Though am I the only one who prefers v1.3 to v2.0?
Thanks, everyone who helped me in some way or another! What did you help me make?
(Also, YouTube does this weird thing where it can't save my settings properly when I try to publish the video, so I have to go to the video's page while it's still private so I can finish the description. Help?)
I used Noteflight for a long time and then converted XML files into Finale... Agh what a mess.
Having now gotten Finale 2014, I can say it's simultaneously the most expensive and most valuable purchase to my music career. Definitely a worthy investment, especially if you can buy a lower value package (you don't need to get 2014).
Long story short: if you can, buy a Finale product of SOME kind. It's loads better than any of the free stuff out there.
The main difference I notice from having both Finale PrintMusic (the less expensive) and Finale 2014 is that 2014 comes with Garritan sounds which cost plenty money on their own, and PrintMusic uses SoftSynth sounds which are not great.... but if you want to hear how your document sounds with Garritan you can ask someone with Finale 2014 (like me!) to run it through and make an audio file.
Also, this is probably technically illegal and do it at your own risk, but you can claim to be upgrading from a previous product and just type in a random serial code and you can get a significant discount, but it's probably not worth it for the trouble.
PrintMusic served me well until I started to write much more serious music and I needed better visualisation of how things sound etc.
Of course there are other differences but they can be found on the make music website
EDIT: I am kind of biased towards Finale because I don't like the Sibelius interface as much, that doesn't mean it isn't good, but I can't write how it compares to Finale very well.
I'll put it this way -- Sibelius, at full power, is best for the orchestral copyist. Finale, at its full power, is best for the engraver preparing a sheet for publication. Different workflows for different needs.
Eh, I decided that making sheet music probably isn't my thing. That advice could still be useful for other people, mind.
Noooooooo
but do give Musescore a try, if nothing else!
I just discovered that all fonts display as Arial on PDFs on Wii U browser. Strange.
Anyhow, maybe I'll try Musescore, maybe I won't. First, I need to find the easiest thing possible that hasn't already been done... (The most basic video game songs I've ever heard are 4AM from ACNL and Memory from SPM, both of which already have sheet music on this site.)
All I need is the key sig pls and ty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07TA4xUCU1I
A minor, with a shit ton of chromatics.
Quote from: Nitro Indigo on April 03, 2016, 02:57:15 PMAnyhow, maybe I'll try Musescore, maybe I won't. First, I need to find the easiest thing possible that hasn't already been done... (The most basic video game songs I've ever heard are 4AM from ACNL and Memory from SPM, both of which already have sheet music on this site.)
You could try Sei-an city commoner's quarters. Most of it is quite sparse and when there are chords it's usually simple progressions
btw this is cool music
and there are midis that can help you
Reminds me, I've had Okamiden for over a year and still haven't finished it... and I've had Okami for months but still haven't gotten to the first dungeon... this is why I shouldn't watch let's plays before buying a game. DX
I don't like to download MIDIs because they might give my computer viruses.
playitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayit
mmmmkay still this music should be okay without midis
So is Okami's music stored in a way that allows one to split it up into its component parts? In other words, could you do a soundfont-edit of some Okami music, the kind of remixes that Bespinben hates? I don't know how files work...
I suppose yes.
When I open midi files I get the option to seperate out all channels as tracks. This means each instrument has it's own 'track' or audio file that can be edited on it's own. Because of the thin texture of the sei-an city music it should be very easy to make a soundfont remix, but I guess that also depends on the software
¡ɔısnɯʇǝǝɥsuıu ʇnoqɐ spuǝıɹɟ ɹnoʎ ןןǝʇ oʇ ǝɹns ǝq
Can anyone tell me what key and time signature this song is in? Thank you!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5CYQk1SYHQ
6/8 but I'm too lazy to do key
That's perfectly fine! Thank you soo much.
C-minor. Either 3/4 or a slow 6/8. The Bpm around Q=80 or 8th=80/Q.=30
Time and Key signature for this song plz!
I think the time signature is 2/4, and the key signature B-major.
What key and time is this in?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI3C9qQlb1U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI3C9qQlb1U)
Quote from: shadowhunter301 on April 28, 2016, 06:08:34 PMWhat key and time is this in?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI3C9qQlb1U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI3C9qQlb1U)
Time sig: 4/4
Key sig: Starts off in G major (1 sharp). Somewhere around 1:10 to 1:20 changes to A major (3 sharps). 3:20 or so- changes to Bb major (2 flats). 3:40- changes to B major (5 sharps). 3:55ish- changes to C#/Db major (6 sharps, 5 flats).
That should be it!
*Hint: Use YouTube tags to directly link the video into the post like this:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI3C9qQlb1U[/youtube]
Thank you Transcriber!!! <3
using youtube tags wasn't necessary for a while, but all of a sudden they are. DEKU?!
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on April 28, 2016, 06:39:28 PMusing youtube tags wasn't necessary for a while, but all of a sudden they are. DEKU?!
Oh, sorry Noc, they aren't required. My bad. I was just showing that url tags do not work. (I actually didn't know that it worked without YouTube tags, thanks for the tip!)
oh ok heh I thought it didn't work anymore mb
Quote from: shadowhunter301 on April 29, 2016, 06:28:04 PM
Thank you anyone! :)
This is a nice song; I like it! Time sig is 3/4, key sig is C major. At 0:48 you could change to A major, but I don't know if it is long enough to warrant a key change. Might be. Someone else could clarify that.
Thanks TMP! 😙
4/4, Db...minor? It's one of those modes that makes it sound Arabic, so I hesitate to say "minor" specifically.
melodic minor?
This one bounces between a couple key sigs, at least in what I'm hearing. It starts out as Db...something. It seems minor-ish, but the presence of F's also gives it a kind of major sound. 4 measures in it changes into something resembling G minor, which continues for 4 measures. This pattern repeats, and then it sounds like it might go into Gb minor for 8 measures. This is a rough guess, and I don't even know if it is 100% right, nor if you need to change this often. I tried.
Ughh....I can't do key changes like that in notepad....someone's gonna have to make a blank sheet like that for me.....
Here you go, (https://www.dropbox.com/s/qh8fbyh9wcmc1dt/The%20Tenacious%20Tentacled%20Terror.mus?dl=1) Brainy. I put in all the details for the sheet (title, game, etc), but you might want to double check my copyright.
Thanks TMP! You're the best!
Is it just me or does it seem like this song is in swing tempo?
Also, here is the sheet to see the note structure.
mus (https://www.dropbox.com/s/g9vs025bjg0xwuw/Bomberman%2064%20-%20Green%20Garden.mus?dl=1)
I'm counting it straight
Thanks Nocturne.
I guess it is just a little on the jazzy side in terms of note structure (for bass anyway).
Mm, I dunno, it sounds swingy to me. The problem is that the way I'm counting it, it seems like the sixteenths are the notes being swung, and not the eighths. I'm not sure how you'd notate that.
Yeah! Green Garden! I've always liked this track
I'd put it in a slow 4/4 with swing 16ths.
I would have it as a fast 4/4 with swing 8ths. have the tempo marking as half note = 110~
After looking at all your suggestions, I am leaning towards shadoninja's suggestion.
I really could have done it either way, but I opted for a faster tempo since it is a lot less cluttered than it was. It is also more convenient since there is a marking for an 8th swing tempo, and it will be played back as expected.
Thanks for the help everyone!
Green Garden. I love that one!
Quote from: Deku Trombonist on June 14, 2016, 10:30:25 PMI'd put it in a slow 4/4 with swing 16ths.
Personally, I'd go with this.
It's yrou sheet so obviously it's up to you what you do with it. But I'll just throw this out there anyway: Does beat 1 of bar 2, 4...etc (of your version) really feel like beat 1 when you listen to the track?
hmmm, I know what your getting at. The song is definitely in 4/4, I overlooked that :P
I'll have to see what I can do about the tempo marking... Is it possible to create that kind of tempo marking in Finale?
If no one else can help, I should be able to mess around with it tomorrow night.
http://makemusic.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1463/~/swing-16th-notes (http://makemusic.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1463/~/swing-16th-notes)
I found this online. The description that it gives implies that it would also be possible to swing any note value (except whole and 64th), based on whatever the beat unit is. So in this case, to swing 16th notes the time signature would have to be changed to 8/8. I am not sure if this will work with an associated direction so that it can be saved to a mus file though...
If you're going to use swing, you'd be better off just doing what shado said. It's unorthodox in common notation practice to swing any note value other than the eighth note.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on June 15, 2016, 05:31:42 PMIf you're going to use swing, you'd be better off just doing what shado said. It's unorthodox in common notation practice to swing any note value other than the eighth note.
I am definitely going to stick with the swing tempo. It looks a lot more organized with, than without.
Now I am going to go stick my head and the freezer for an hour or two. Who would have thought that I would find this discussion more confusing than matrix calculations! Of course, that means I am more likely to retain this knowledge for future reference. Thanks for all the input everyone.
I was just doing some research on metre, and would it be more appropriate to use 4/2 time with this setup, or is it not that common? It counts the same as 4/4, but is just twice as long.
Finally listened to it. I would not use 4/2 at all. Never would I see a funk-esque chart like this in a meter like 4/2. No need to over-complicate things.
Quote from: Shadoninja on June 14, 2016, 11:59:38 PMI would have it as a fast 4/4 with swing 8ths. have the tempo marking as half note = 110~
I would do this with the exception of putting it in cut time.
If you want 4/4 with swing 16ths. Comes with bonus cleanup. Free delivery. Just 3 easy payments of $9.99. Global Deku Direct.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84117653/Assistance/Bomberman%2064%20-%20Green%20Garden.mus
Olimar: There are definitely plenty of charts out there with swing 16ths, and I've played quite a few myself.
Quote from: Deku Trombonist on June 15, 2016, 07:40:56 PMIf you want 4/4 with swing 16ths. Comes with bonus cleanup. Free delivery. Just 3 easy payments of $9.99. Global Deku Direct.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84117653/Assistance/Bomberman%2064%20-%20Green%20Garden.mus
lol, thanks Deku, Do you accept visas! :D
I spent forever trying to figure out how the bass for m7 flows.
I will now return to my hovel and arrange this song (finally!). I am probably going to invest in Finale soon, since I enjoy writing down music so much, both for arrangements as well as my own stuff.
Quote from: PetrifiedLasagna on June 14, 2016, 08:35:06 PMIs it just me or does it seem like this song is in swing tempo?
Also, here is the sheet to see the note structure.
mus (https://www.dropbox.com/s/g9vs025bjg0xwuw/Bomberman%2064%20-%20Green%20Garden.mus?dl=1)
Uhh...I'm definitely getting swing outta this...
Quote from: Deku Trombonist on June 15, 2016, 07:40:56 PMOlimar: There are definitely plenty of charts out there with swing 16ths, and I've played quite a few myself.
psh hardly (and double time feel doesn't count, either). Jazz is all about the 8th note, so you won't find it there lol.
Nope, not talking about double time. I mean I have played a number of charts over the past couple of years which were in 4/4 with swung 16ths (for big band). Of course they're not the norm, but they are out there.
Must be newer stuff. Normally in jazz the sixteenth note is straight when the eighth is swung.
Off the to if my head:
Ack, couldn't find McConnell's Boss Brass version, but this will do.
Tunes like Cissy Strut and The Chicken, charts like Can't Take My Eyes Off You and Easy (yeah Lionel Richie!), and anything else in a 16th note shuffle groove.
But yeah it took a moment to get the hang of it the first time I read it.
What key is this?
https://youtu.be/Ez9I03-TpSE
A major (3 sharps).
EDIT: Dudeman is correct: A minor.
Mm, I think it's A minor, actually.
Oh dang. I spoke to soon. Welp.
well we know it's a minor but which one
hahaha I'm so funny laugh at me
I thought it was A minor too.
EDIT: Someone's already arranging this
G minor.
What key and time signature is this in?
I have a feeling it's in swing 4/4 and E flat major but I'm not so sure.
It is in 4/4 Swung Time but the key signature is Bb Major. (I'm pretty sure)
4/4 swing, B flat major.
It's absolutely not swing. There are running triplets constantly throughout the entire piece, as well as some syncopated rhythms in the melody that would only make sense in compound time. Use a compound meter, like 12/8.
^100% agree, just listen to that drum set-definitely not swing. I'd probably use 12/16, but that's just me.
Quote from: Lenny Face on July 09, 2016, 05:26:18 AMWhat key and time signature is this in?
I have a feeling it's in swing 4/4 and E flat major but I'm not so sure.
I agree it's in compound quadruple meter (I'd probably end up using 12/8 time), but it swings pretty rapidly between a Bb tonic and a C tonic (leaning towards Bb major-like, C minor-like, F-minor-solo-on-dominant-like, and C-double-harmonic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_harmonic_scale)-like). I suspect you may need to rapidly change key signatures or pick a base key signature based on the ones I suggested, then put on a lot of accidentals.
Is the first section in 3/4, 6/8 or 12/8? I don't actually know the difference (between 6/8 and 12/8), so an explanation would be nice!
The difference between 6/8 and 12/8 is akin to the difference between 2/4 and 4/4 - whether the piece relies on 2-beat or 4-beat units.
Using that logic (to an extent), is the first section in 6/8?
It's a little hard to tell, I'm not quite sure (sorry!) I only stopped in to mention the 6/8 12/8 thing because you asked.
why not just count the whole thing in 4/4
I'd say 12/8, personally. I don't think two-beat phrases really work here.
^6/8 would actually work pretty great here. There are two, 2-beat phrases per chord-change, so you could have them one-per-bar without having really long, compound 12/8 measures.
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on July 13, 2016, 05:07:08 PMwhy not just count the whole thing in 4/4
You're joking, right? xD
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FBko9OAW.png&hash=594cfffeafdcdcfb11b60a263835f0a4b92b9b86)
Judging by the first 4 measures, 6/8 is probably the most suitable for this.
whoa, you've turned around the beat there. Half the note values and condense every two measures into one measure.
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FW9YctWX.png&hash=66817f07f3b71dc4e25a0d01eace47ef5b05d641)
Hmm... Kinda looks off though.
Also I'm going to have to half the note values for the entire arrangement...
That looks right to me! That's how I'd do it! :D
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKpZMF28.png&hash=0cf51c3eca50a24c420feaef8687fd0a205f7376)
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPgy4UWy.png&hash=ccbb62f4bb6363a105ef95349f5022067cc486d2)
Just a quick comparison here.
I've been taught that 6/8 time goes: 1 + + 2 + +
Compared to 3/4, which goes: 1 + 2 + 3 +
The first image (what I had originally), matches the bassline to the beat of 6/8. The second image (what you're telling me) doesn't match, so I never even considered it when arranging.
Quote from: WaluigiTime64 on July 13, 2016, 08:56:30 PM(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKpZMF28.png&hash=0cf51c3eca50a24c420feaef8687fd0a205f7376)
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPgy4UWy.png&hash=ccbb62f4bb6363a105ef95349f5022067cc486d2)
Just a quick comparison here.
I've been taught that 6/8 time goes: 1 + + 2 + +
Compared to 3/4, which goes: 1 + 2 + 3 +
The first image (what I had originally), matches the bassline to the beat of 6/8. The second image (what you're telling me) doesn't match, so I never even considered it when arranging.
You would be correct in thinking that,
if what you had in the lowest voice there was the bass. Listening to the bass in the youtube video provided, it sounds like the bass is on a low F for two bars (of the second picture) then it goes down to a lower Db for the next to bars. The part you have notated as the lowest voice in this version seems to support the syncopated part in the voice above it. Having that as the bass is why it looks weird.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 13, 2016, 09:07:26 PMYou would be correct in thinking that, if what you had in the lowest voice there was the bass. Listening to the bass in the youtube video provided, it sounds like the bass is on a low F for two bars (of the second picture) then it goes down to a lower Db for the next to two bars.
When I pay more attention to that, I can actually hear it. But there's a priority concern. Should I have what is more audible? Or should I have the proper bassline? It does sound quite different with the proper bassline though.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 13, 2016, 09:07:26 PMThe part you have notated as the lowest voice in this version seems to support the syncopated part in the voice above it. Having that as the bass is why it looks weird.
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjsO9DIi.png&hash=03dedb36cf6b3cb3a071a311a5429bb1b057c0e8)
Here's a sample of 2 later measures.
Problem 1: Got any playability suggestions for the left hand?
Problem 2: The chords in the left hand still follow that off-beat rhythm.
Problem 3: Demisemiquavers. There's not really a problem, they just bother me.
Honestly if I look further into the arrangement, the 4/4 sections would look a bit messy with those note values, and I don't want to have an unnecessary tempo change (from 90 to 180).
1) Perhaps sustained long tones? It's your arrangement, man; I'm just saying that having the actual bass as the lowest voice will make it sound more authentic, rather than doubling that voice like in the previous version.
2) This is not a problem, that is how the original sounds! It's called:
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 13, 2016, 09:07:26 PMsyncopation
3) Again, not an issue. Those note values exist for this vary scenario and there is nothing wrong with using them. It would be played the exact same way if you notated it with one less beam running across the top.
For the 4/4 section that follows, the tempo indication only needs to be a simple q=q. The tempo doesn't change; the only thing that changes is that note value that the beat falls on.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 13, 2016, 10:03:30 PM1) Perhaps sustained long tones? It's your arrangement, man; I'm just saying that having the actual bass as the lowest voice will make it sound more authentic, rather than doubling that voice like in the previous version.
Got something down. It's honestly not that great and I'll probably have to find a better alternative, but what I have works for now.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 13, 2016, 10:03:30 PM2) This is not a problem, that is how the original sounds!
Got it.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 13, 2016, 10:03:30 PM3) Again, not an issue. Those note values exist for this vary very scenario and there is nothing wrong with using them. It would be played the exact same way if you notated it with one less beam running across the top.
Yeah, anything shorter than a semiquaver used in mass just bothers me a bit (then again, a lot of small things like this bother me).
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 13, 2016, 10:03:30 PMFor the 4/4 section that follows, the tempo indication only needs to be a simple q=q. The tempo doesn't change; the only thing that changes is that note value that the beat falls on.
So, something like this (https://www.dropbox.com/s/20xulqcixoeyj9d/Last%20Remote%20%281%29.mus?dl=1)? Except that instead of the various tempo change-like messages, you have the q=q, right? Because I use Musescore, I don't have access to a q=q, so I found a slight alternative (until I get it formatted, of course).
Quote from: WaluigiTime64Problem 1: Got any playability suggestions for the left hand?
An easy trick you could do is to just remove the lower note on the strong beats where the chords are. So you play the chord, then immediately go down and play 2 bass notes etc.
What time signature and key signature is this in? I'm creating an arrangement of this for a standard orchestra.
I think its E flat Major (my favorite key signature ever)
It's 4/4 for sure, although the accompaniment rhythm is like 3+3+2.
As for key sig, I think it's in Eb-major, but I'm not sure.
Def. Eb major.
Quote from: Lenny Face on July 20, 2016, 09:44:02 AMWhat time signature and key signature is this in? I'm creating an arrangement of this for a standard orchestra.
I think its E flat Major (my favorite key signature ever)
I third E flat major and second 4/4, although it definitely adds more flats to the key at times, and it's also syncopated.
Lenny, if you're making an arrangement of this, the correct title for this track is "The Starship Travels."
Spoiler
from the official OST:
http://vgmdb.net/album/19454
MUS (https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ue30vbh1v2d3d5/Hartmann%27s%20Youkai%20Girl.mus?dl=1)
Main things I need help with:
- Beaming in 7/8
- Knowing if those sections are 7/8 in the first place
- Key signatures (excluding Measures 57-72 (which actually ARE in A Minor), and Measures 73-88 (which are in either A Sharp (which I put) or B Flat Minor))
Thanks!
Bars 1-12 are, indeed, in 7/8 time.
Key signature help:
Bars 1-24: E minor (A strong Phrygian influence (mainly use of F natural) obscures the E tonic here. I'm going with Olimar12345-style key signatures for now.)
Bars 25-56: E flat minor a.k.a. D sharp minor (I generally default to E flat minor because I'm a big fan of secondary dominants and I keep thinking that the natural on the leading tone counts as a natural when I think about how many accidentals a key signature sounds like it has. Secondary dominants are more readable with heavy-flat key signatures than heavy-sharp key signatures--secondary dominants in heavy-sharp key signatures tend to need double sharps.)
Bars 89-112 (end): E minor again (This sounds like Bars 1-24.)
You got the rest of the key signatures correct.
Quote from: Dekkadeci on July 30, 2016, 12:21:52 PMI'm going with Olimar12345-style key signatures for now.
I have absolutely no idea what this means.
Thanks for the help! Much appreciated.
Quote from: WaluigiTime64 on July 30, 2016, 02:02:58 PMI have absolutely no idea what this means.
I was referring to this quote that Olimar12345 re-posted in the "Key Signature for Modes?" thread:
Quote from: Olimar12345 on June 13, 2016, 01:43:11 AMThat way of identifying the key signature through my experience requires more unnecessary work. It's as if you're working the possibilities of all four answer choices of a multiple choice math problem rather than use a formula to solve the problem at hand; it works, but seems like more work than it needs to be. I've found that identifying tonic first makes it simple: once you know that note is tonic, identify if it is in a major or minor tonality, then use any regularly reoccurring oddities to that as pointers for the mode. For example: I hear that a piece has a definite tonic pitch of A and sounds like it's in minor, easy: A minor. Then I notice there are a lot of F sharps throughout, I might want to consider if it is in the Dorian mode. Just remember that the modes are split into major and minor categories:
Phrygian, Aeolian, and Dorian are the minor modes, ordered from most lowered pitches to least.
Mixolydian, Ionian, and Lydian represent the major modes, again ordered from most lowered pitches to least (with Lydian having a raised pitch (4)).
Locrian is the bastard child mode, being based on the seventh scaled degree and essentially being a "diminished" mode (and being pretty damn hard to tonicize lol).
Although being able to recognize these modes in music can be extremely useful, I would never notate them using the key signature. I reserve that spot for displaying tonic, using accidentals to represent the modes. For example, C Lydian would be written in C major with the F sharps written out. This way at first glance the performer may more easily identify that C is tonic and the alterations are clearly marked. I would almost argue that this way would display the mode BETTER than having it all of the accidentals in the key signature because the performer is treated to an abundance of clarity, both with the identification of tonic (when you see one flat in the key signature, you instinctively think "F major or D minor" before the rest of the modes) and the manual visual representation of the altered pitches that characterize the specific mode.
Man I think I'm rambling lol.
I generally agree with him, but none of my music theory books do--they'd notate E Phrygian just like you've currently notated Bar 1: no accidentals in the key signature.
I'd make those 4/4 sections 8/8.
Actually nevermind it's pretty distinctly 4/4 especially later on.
So, we good? (https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ue30vbh1v2d3d5/Hartmann%27s%20Youkai%20Girl.mus?dl=1)
Key signature-wise, you're good!
Yeah, it's just the 7/8 beaming now.
I have it set to 3+2+2, which I think works for this song. Would this be correct?
For the most part I was able to figure this song out pretty good, but from m21 to m28 I am not sure what the timing is. Luckily the notes were easy to figure out. I thought it was 3/4 but it doesn't line up correctly
mus (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6bkdh1vh7ksn0ab/Bomberman%2064%20-%20Masker.mus?dl=1)
0:22
PetrifiedLasagna, I'd notate that section in 4/4 time--it uses the 3-3-3-3-2-2 rhythmic pattern I've heard so often.
I was able to find a helpful article to educate myself on divisive/additive rhythm. It gave the example of runaway by Bon Jovi using it (3-3-3-3-2-2) which was easily recognizable since I am learning that song ;D
http://rhythm.thw88z.com/3-3-3-3-2-2.html (http://rhythm.thw88z.com/3-3-3-3-2-2.html)
Thanks for the pointer Dekkadeci.
I just made a two piano duet of Pokémon GO Gym battle theme, but I'm not sure if I got it right. Is it just me or does sections A and F sound a bit weird? I'm thinking particualarly about the rhythmic chords in the tenor register.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Pokemon%20GO/Battle%21%20%28Gym%20Leader%29%20%28Two%20Pianos%29.zip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye78aoUtqOY
Trying to arrange some XD: Gale of Darkness music, but can't figure the (different) time signatures in this one. Obviously the beginning is in 4/4, but the amount of tempo shifts make it impossible for me to identify time signature changes and triplets. Would appreciate any help.
I started arranging the main them from Skylanders: Imaginators. But the rhythm of the song confuses me. I can't tell if it's in 4/4 or 12/8. The first part seem to be in 4/4 and the second in 12/8, or that the 1st part uses 16ths and the second triplets, but I'm not sure if I'm right.
Would someone mind telling me the key/time sig of this boi (it changes in the middle too):
Thanks!
Starts in 4/4, you could stick the guitar part in 2/4 with an extra beat here and there for those weird spots, and the 2nd half is undoubtedly 6/8.
Can't wait to see the finished product.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on October 17, 2016, 01:44:28 PMI started arranging the main them from Skylanders: Imaginators. But the rhythm of the song confuses me. I can't tell if it's in 4/4 or 12/8. The first part seem to be in 4/4 and the second in 12/8, or that the 1st part uses 16ths and the second triplets, but I'm not sure if I'm right.
So I finished the arrangement, but I'm really not sure if the rhythm is correct. I'm really not sure whether it should be triplets or 16ths. So it would great if someone could take a look and see if it's good.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Skylanders%20Imaginators/Main%20Theme.zip
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on October 20, 2016, 12:38:12 PMSo I finished the arrangement, but I'm really not sure if the rhythm is correct. I'm really not sure whether it should be triplets or 16ths. So it would great if someone could take a look and see if it's good.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Skylanders%20Imaginators/Main%20Theme.zip
I'd say that the entire song should be in 12/8 and the melody should have triplets instead of 16ths.
If you notice, in beginning section it really feels like the horns and chords are out of sync. I think the reason for this is that if the song is in 12/8, the rhythm for the low chords could be written more like this:
Spoiler
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSkYwzLs.png&hash=32bafca16e9da615c9a425bce5fe214c6e03a772)
When listening to that rhythm, it feels like the bass is coming in late because it's not exactly on the 'and' of beat 3. This weird syncopation doesn't happen in the second second half of the song because all of the chords start on beat 2 exactly, which makes it sound a lot more like correct 12/8 time.
Well y. It kind of looks like a 12/8 with all the triplets. But when I'm trying to do it in 12/8, it sounds way to slow. In fact when I was thinking about the rhythm you highlighted in the picture, I was thinking about having it as a duplet. And I'm also really unsure about the right hand melody. The notes sound very quick, as if they're 16ths. But it's even more confusing in m.2 when you can hear the later 2 notes in the RH play simultaneously as the LH chord.
About M.2, when the song is arranged in 12/8 time the simultaneous LH and RH makes sense. It's pretty clear that if you use 4/4 time, on M.2 beat 3 the LH plays a quarter-note triplet. However, if you replicate that same rhythm in 12/8 and also use an eighth-note triplet in the RH, we can see that they line up perfectly, just as they should:
Spoiler
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fohu2Kjt.png&hash=f36f24ae5afb567d335a4f403047ab6cf3a49cc8)
I'm not sure what you mean about it sounding too slow in 12/8, but I'm pretty sure this is how it should sound after scrutinizing the original. Here's an example with a triplet metronome running:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38825902/ShareX/2016/10/timing%20example_1.mp4
Quote from: Magic Mole on October 20, 2016, 11:21:32 AMWould someone mind telling me the key/time sig of this boi (it changes in the middle too):
Thanks!
Starts in D minor, switches to F sharp minor at ~1:50, switches back to D minor at ~2:05 (good job using an A major chord as a pivot). Note the D Dorian-like passages around ~1:38 and ~1:45.
Quote from: Th3Gavst3r on October 20, 2016, 04:19:12 PMAbout M.2, when the song is arranged in 12/8 time the simultaneous LH and RH makes sense. It's pretty clear that if you use 4/4 time, on M.2 beat 3 the LH plays a quarter-note triplet. However, if you replicate that same rhythm in 12/8 and also use an eighth-note triplet in the RH, we can see that they line up perfectly, just as they should:
Spoiler
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fohu2Kjt.png&hash=f36f24ae5afb567d335a4f403047ab6cf3a49cc8)
I'm not sure what you mean about it sounding too slow in 12/8, but I'm pretty sure this is how it should sound after scrutinizing the original. Here's an example with a triplet metronome running:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38825902/ShareX/2016/10/timing%20example_1.mp4
First of all, M.2 wasn't really an issue, in fact it was the only time I was sure about the rhythm. All the other measures is where I wasn't sure about the rhythm, except for the later part which clearly has a 12/8 feel.
Listening more to the song. It seems like it's something in between a triplet and 16ths. Or like the second note, on the 2nd strong beat (2 or 4), seems a bit delayed so that the triplets/16ths gets faster.
After listening to this even more, I think the horn soloist just had bad tempo and kept rushing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
At this point I'd just say pick whichever meter you like best, but judging from the bass rhythm and the triplets in the string section starting at M.10 I would personally pick 12/8. This is your arrangement after all though, so the decision is yours to make!
Quote from: Th3Gavst3r on October 21, 2016, 01:39:36 PMAfter listening to this even more, I think the horn soloist just had bad tempo and kept rushing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
At this point I'd just say pick whichever meter you like best, but judging from the bass rhythm and the triplet string chords starting at M.10 I would personally pick 12/8. This is your arrangement after all though, so the decision is yours to make!
I definitely agree with you that the rhythm really is dubious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbzEjfZKFSA
I finished my arrangement of this song, but I have yet to put in a key signature. Help would be appreciated.
I'm getting F Major, but with a lot of variance because it's a Pokémon battle theme.
Quote from: Dudeman on October 22, 2016, 10:38:29 PMI'm getting F Major, but with a lot of variance because it's a Pokémon battle theme.
^This. I'm hearing bits of E Minor and A Major/Minor later on too.
Ok, here is the first one. The soundtrack for this pretty tricky for me and my main weakness are time sigs and key sigs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPeaoYNzgpw&list=PLiGvWycRgz6hNoJjlk71C_tLz22CeB2Sb
Definitely 4/4. I'm pretty sure it's in D minor (one flat).
I just need the key sigs, thanks in advance!
I feel like both of them are in A Minor, but with a lot of variation.
Time signature and where is the beat?
Hooray! More Ranger! You and FireArrow really made my morning.
I'd put it in 3/4. The flute melody begins on the and of 1, and the string chords fall on the off-beats. Cymbal crashes fall on the downbeat.
I'm only unsure about the first section's time signature. Something makes me want to say it's not 4/4 (such as the random 2/4 measures).
I think it's really just that: there's a 2/4 measure every 8 bars in the opening section. It's not frequent enough to warrant a completely different time signature imo.
Quote from: Dudeman on November 24, 2016, 12:19:47 PMI think it's really just that: there's a 2/4 measure every 8 bars in the opening section. It's not frequent enough to warrant a completely different time signature imo.
Yeah, I felt like that was the case. I just got confused by the bassline.
- key signature, all natural works fine (no major sections where I put a lot of accidentals), maybe E Minor, but then the LH would have naturals running on the F from 0:35 - 1:06; the trumpet in 0:38 - 0:43 seems to be in B flat but then the violin (?) directly after has a B natural? I have NotePad so I couldn't just change it whenever I wanted to...
- time signature for first 30 seconds (plus beat placement and BPM), the majority if the piece is in 4/4 (with 3/4 starting at 2:26); I attempted to arrange it in the same 4/4 timing as the rest of the piece, it worked fine but I decide to put a bunch of caesura in to compensate, wondering if there's a better alternative.
As aforementioned I use NotePad so if you want to put some special changes onto the arrangement that would be great!
V Arrangement of first part (0:00 - 2:26) V
Quote from: Lkjhgfdsa_77 on September 30, 2016, 05:22:54 PMLegend of Skyloft (pt 1) | || | The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword | 30 | 65%, gets really weird but most of the notes are there | .mid (https://www.dropbox.com/s/izftwagp333wpyi/The%20Legend%20of%20Zelda%20Skyward%20Sword%20-%20Legend%20of%20Skyloft%20pt%201.mid?dl=0) | .mus (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhg56sx5py8dlfm/The%20Legend%20of%20Zelda%20Skyward%20Sword%20-%20Legend%20of%20Skyloft%20pt%201.mus?dl=0) | .pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ccpx0dbmpk257tx/The%20Legend%20of%20Zelda%20Skyward%20Sword%20-%20Legend%20of%20Skyloft%20pt%201.pdf?dl=0) |
I get the feeling that this isn't in 4/4 time. 12/8 maybe?
halp
It's a march with triplets, although I'm hearing some places with what sounds like sixteenths in there as well. I'd use 12/8 personally.
If I was going the march route, I'd def use 6/8 over 12/8.
The key for this song is weird, and after discussing it with Latios, I think it isn't what I have written, but something else...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF8iHFM5mBI
I put that it starts as Dmaj, then changes to Abmaj at 0:26, and changes again to Gmaj at 0:42, and back to Dmaj when it loops at 0:45.
If someone could double-check for me that'd be cool
Might go for a hard song, and GT3's OST is pretty damn great. I'm assuming C Minor, 4/4 and around 120 BPM tempo.
I think it might be in a D key signature, but full notation might say otherwise.
Also I love this song now.
2nd most obscure Kirby game, next to BS Kirby's Toy Box; this game, however, is less known. The song starts at 0:59. This was my best source. It's tricky finding out the key because there's no bass and the song only lasts 2 measures.
Don't know if you've already sorted it out but I would say A major as that's what it's in for two phrases out of three, then it's F minor. Maybe just not having a key might be better?
Quote from: AmpharosAndy on March 06, 2017, 04:59:30 AMDon't know if you've already sorted it out but I would say A major as that's what it's in for two phrases out of three, then it's F minor. Maybe just not having a key might be better?
Yeah, I think it would be better without one. Thanks, Andy!
I wrote it out, and it feels like the whole thing's in F Minor. There's just some naturals/flats to throw you off.
Quote from: WaluigiTime64 on March 06, 2017, 11:36:53 AMI wrote it out, and it feels like the whole thing's in F Minor. There's just some naturals/flats to throw you off.
F minor, got it! Thanks, Waluigi!
Quote from: Lkjhgfdsa_77 on December 18, 2016, 12:28:19 PM
- key signature, all natural works fine (no major sections where I put a lot of accidentals), maybe E Minor, but then the LH would have naturals running on the F from 0:35 - 1:06; the trumpet in 0:38 - 0:43 seems to be in B flat but then the violin (?) directly after has a B natural? I have NotePad so I couldn't just change it whenever I wanted to...
- time signature for first 30 seconds (plus beat placement and BPM), the majority if the piece is in 4/4 (with 3/4 starting at 2:26); I attempted to arrange it in the same 4/4 timing as the rest of the piece, it worked fine but I decide to put a bunch of caesura in to compensate, wondering if there's a better alternative.
As aforementioned I use NotePad so if you want to put some special changes onto the arrangement that would be great!
V Arrangement of first part (0:00 - 2:26) V
Quote from: Lkjhgfdsa_77 on September 30, 2016, 05:22:54 PMLegend of Skyloft (pt 1) | || | The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword | 30 | 65%, gets really weird but most of the notes are there | .mid (https://www.dropbox.com/s/izftwagp333wpyi/The%20Legend%20of%20Zelda%20Skyward%20Sword%20-%20Legend%20of%20Skyloft%20pt%201.mid?dl=0) | .mus (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhg56sx5py8dlfm/The%20Legend%20of%20Zelda%20Skyward%20Sword%20-%20Legend%20of%20Skyloft%20pt%201.mus?dl=0) | .pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ccpx0dbmpk257tx/The%20Legend%20of%20Zelda%20Skyward%20Sword%20-%20Legend%20of%20Skyloft%20pt%201.pdf?dl=0) |
Quote from: Lkjhgfdsa_77 on December 18, 2016, 12:28:19 PMthe trumpet in 0:38 - 0:43 seems to be in B flat but then the violin (?) directly after has a B natural?
That's what I'm hearing too. The trumpet fanfare is just playing in the wrong key probably for dramatic effect.
Quote from: Lkjhgfdsa_77 on December 18, 2016, 12:28:19 PM- time signature for first 30 seconds (plus beat placement and BPM), the majority if the piece is in 4/4 (with 3/4 starting at 2:26); I attempted to arrange it in the same 4/4 timing as the rest of the piece, it worked fine but I decide to put a bunch of caesura in to compensate, wondering if there's a better alternative.
If there is I can't think of one. That works fine for me most of the time :) The intro reminds me a lot of the intro of 'Feste Romane' by Respighi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2EPHoMlqnk) and the score for that uses lots of tempo changes and pauses instead of caesuras. If it's a piano arrangement it's probably best not having tempo changes everywhere otherwise it might be daunting to play?
Also
Wii fit plaza.
Planning on submitting this soon, when latios has more time, but I need to know what time sig to put it in?? I believe that it is in 9/8.
I had it as 6/8 for a while but the phrases are always going over the barline/three dotted crotchets long. Am I incorrect?
9/8 is right.
Just the key. I'm getting that sometimes, G, D, and A are sharp, but not everytime.
seems like A minor but I haven't listened closely yet
Quote from: Latios212 on March 11, 2017, 01:11:11 PMseems like A minor but I haven't listened closely yet
After long consideration and thought, I also believe it is A minor with accidentals interspersed here and there.
So do I need to change my accidentals to flats?
Depends. Where are the accidentals in question?
Scattered all throughout the piece. G#, D#, & A#. They are for the most part always sharped, but not always.
Depends on each individual chord.
Also G#, D# and A# in flats would be Ab, Eb and Bb, which seem oddly perfect.
Quote from: WaluigiTime64 on March 11, 2017, 01:19:20 PMDepends on each individual chord.
Also G#, D# and A# in flats would be Ab, Eb and Bb, which seem oddly perfect.
Flats do seem to make more sense.
Quote from: WaluigiTime64 on March 11, 2017, 01:19:20 PMDepends on each individual chord.
Honestly though, we're going to have to see the whole sheet first.
But in A minor, you'd be more likely to see a G# (raised seventh).
You really can't just say, it's dependent on context.
Large image
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYlGwHI9.jpg&hash=57b0ec9646ee0c9bb52feadaac09dbf31a4a6e3f)
That's a portion of the sheet; I'm not at home and the WiFi at the hotel stinks.
Quote from: E. Gadd Industries on March 11, 2017, 01:27:32 PMThat's a portion of the sheet; I'm not at home and the WiFi at the hotel stinks.
My lack of expertise says go with flats. It might be a good idea if you get input from someone who's more experienced, though.
A better picture with more accidentals
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fxg7NIZd.jpg&hash=cdc056da666d28df611307f4d39cabceaefb9b54)
I'm seeing a ton of flat opportunities in the LH (I saw F and C Minor), but a ton of sharp opportunities in the RH. It really depends on each individual measure.
Sounds like A minor to me (at least in the first ten seconds).
Quote from: mastersuperfan on March 11, 2017, 01:37:02 PMSounds like A minor to me (at least in the first ten seconds).
It's A Minor throughout the piece (I think).
Quote from: WaluigiTime64 on March 11, 2017, 01:41:06 PMIt's A Minor throughout the piece (I think).
Definitely A minor throughout. No doubt about it.
Hitchhikers Guide to Minor Key Accidentals:
1 - diatonic
b2 - parallel Phrygian
2 - diatonic
b3 - diatonic
3 - Picardy 3rd
4 - diatonic
#4 - 3rd of V/V secondary dominant (note: b5 is uncommon)
5 - diatonic
b6 - diatonic
6 - parallel Dorian
b7 - diatonic
7 - raised 7th of harmonic minor
cool story bro but what does that mean
What we need is a translator. Is there a translator in the house?
Scales yo
O_o So A Minor? >_<
general tendency is chromatic lower/upper neighbors take on the form of the lower note (ex. E-D#-E rather than E-Eb-E), ascending scales take sharps, descending scales take flats.
other general rule of thumb. look at any vertical harmony. if it can be spelled as a series of thirds rather than something else (ex. A C# E versus A Db E), give it the thirds treatment.
Wait, Ben's post is starting to make some sense...
So it would be (for, say, an A scale)
A, Bb, B, Cb(?), C, D, D#, E, Fb(?), F, Gb, G?
Rip Ben's really useful chart. Now do enharmonics
@Egadd: yes, the numbers in Ben's post correlate with the letter names in a scale, ascending. Numbers are useful because you can apply them to any key by simply making tonic 1.
Quote from: Bespinben on March 11, 2017, 02:01:43 PMHitchhikers Guide to Minor Key Accidentals:
1 - diatonic
b2 - parallel Phrygian
2 - diatonic
b3 - diatonic
3 - Picardy 3rd
4 - diatonic
#4 - 3rd of V/V secondary dominant (note: b5 is uncommon)
5 - diatonic
b6 - diatonic
6 - parallel Dorian
b7 - diatonic
7 - raised 7th of harmonic minor
Nice.
Also, I'm going to need some harmonies, but from just glancing at it, those E-sharps can be written as F-naturals. Basic melodic writing says that if you have a line going up, and there's an altered note, say, sharped, then it continues upward, then it should be written as a sharp. BUT, if you have a sharped note, then the line immediately goes down, then it would be wise to flat that note instead. For instance, the third to the last bar, you have a D-sharp going to a D-natural. Now, if harmonically there's a D-sharp in the spelling, then it's pretty kosher to keep it a D-sharp, but not always for the sake of the performer. But if it's just an altered tone having nothing to do with the harmonic spelling whatsoever, then I would go ahead and write it as an E-flat to a D-natural.
Does this make sense?
I'm convinced it starts off as G major, but it doesn't use any F#s, only F neutrals, so it might actually be C major. (The same goes for the Bb/Eb at the end)
Then comes the problem about the timing of the modulation. 0:23 and 0:35 are my two possibilities at the moment (I'm leaning towards the 0:35)
What does you guys think?
Definitely G Major, and I would put the modulation at 0:35 as well (that's Bb Major).
^G to Bb is right. The F naturals you see are from the use of mixolydian mode.
Ah right, thank you both!
It's the 2300 AD background track from Chrono Trigger! :) I don't intend to arrange this, but this is one of the tracks that's worthy of some thought. ^^
If you were to arrange this, what would be a nice time signature? It's not meant to be beated, but there's this fun interaction in the track - percussion parts beat every two eighths, and every long chord lasts nine eighths. Yep, that's right:
nine eighths. The phrases are four chords long, with the first and third chord progressing in step to the second and fourth chords respectively. :)
So it would seem right to write it in 9/4, but that suggests compound triple meter. 4+5/4 or 5+4/4 would be ignoring the equal division of the long chords. The best option I can think of is writing in 18/8 (which doesn't really suggest that equal division either, but eh) or writing in 4/4 and making the whole thing a mess of ties. :p
Thoughts? ^^ Would be glad to hear some of them, because this track is just so worth discussing <3
oh and since i'm here: great marsh from dppt.
Spoiler
i'm almost certain this is 2/2, but i have seen pretty much zero sheets on the site in 2/2. would anyone else write this in 2/2?
I'm getting a strong C minor vibe from this. The chords go all over the place though, so I'm not entirely certain.
As far as timesig goes, if you are notating the percussion in the sheet itself, I would probably go with 9/8 and label the subdivisions as being different. Not all 9/8 songs are necessarily in triple (like this (http://www.mindformusic.com/public/pdf/brubeck_dave/Dave%20Brubeck%20-%20Blue%20Rondo%20A%20La%20Turk.pdf) for example), so as long as you label what subdivisions you're using I think it would work nicely.
If you aren't notating the percussion parts on the sheet, then I would either do the 9/8 stuff above or, if you want, put it in 4/4 but make sure the tempo is the same.
Hope this helps a little!
Edit: About that Great Marsh one, I would personally put it in 4/4 with quarter note = around 110, but cut time would also work I think.
Hey, thanks for the thoughts, Static! ^^ Yep, it's C natural minor with the D-flat chord added in for flavour (there's a theory term for this, neapolitan 6th i think).
I quite dig the idea of notating it in 9/8, and in a similar style to the Brubeck sheet you shared. So thanks for the sharing, yeah :)
Oh, and for great Marsh, the more I think about your idea, the more stupid cut time sounds. I'll be scoring it in 4/4, hehe~
I need to know what type of swing this song is before I alter the song completely.
This is what I have right now:
[MUSX] (https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7e6yyv08o1tpxm/Kirby%20Planet%20Robobot%20-%20Gorgeous-Go-Round.musx?dl=1)
Should it still be dotted eighths tied w/ sixteenths, or should it be eighth notes swung with this notation?
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guitarnoise.com%2Fimages%2Farticles%2F3746%2F4.gif&hash=a145abe63c8c51198bc1b0e2f515d95bd08b7d24)
I have a lot of alteration to perform on this song, but this will come first.
Swing eights, as the picture above says.
This song is just so weird:
It's mainly the time signature for the first 14 seconds; I have no idea what to put down.
However, I do have the other time signatures down I think, in case anyone wants to check them (starting at 0:14):
12 measures 7/8 (3+2+2)
1 measure 5/8 (3+2)
1 measure 8/8 (2+3+3)
5 measures 14/8 (2+3+3+3+3)
1 measure 5/8 (2+3)
1 measure 8/8 (2+3+3)
5 measures 14/8 (2+3+3+3+3)
1 measure 5/8 (2+3)
Thanks!
Quote from: Static on April 12, 2017, 09:03:44 PMThis song is just so weird:
It's mainly the time signature for the first 14 seconds; I have no idea what to put down.
However, I do have the other time signatures down I think, in case anyone wants to check them (starting at 0:14):
12 measures 7/8 (3+2+2)
1 measure 5/8 (3+2)
1 measure 8/8 (2+3+3)
5 measures 14/8 (2+3+3+3+3)
1 measure 5/8 (2+3)
1 measure 8/8 (2+3+3)
5 measures 14/8 (2+3+3+3+3)
1 measure 5/8 (2+3)
Thanks!
Oddly, I find the first several seconds to be the most regularly rhythmic of the piece--from 0:00-0:12, I'm getting this:
Quarter-note pickup
2 measures of 4/4
1 measure of 3/4
4 measures of 4/4
...Though the start of the 3/4 bar isn't emphasized, the starts of the other bars are.
I lose track at approx. 0:13 (around the ascending A#-B-C# figure in the melody)--notably, I'm having a hard time finding your 7/8 bar right now.
Hey, thanks! After listening to the song again, those times make a lot more sense to me now. I think you were pretty spot-on.
I'll try this out and keep experimenting with other possibilities. Thanks for responding!
Also, in case you were wondering, the 7/8 section starts when the bassline kicks in, although it can be a little tough to tell.
What Key is this? Also, could someone assist me with chords here?
D, then somewhere around the middle it switches to F, and somewhat near the end it switches to F#/Gb (it should be really obvious where that one happens).
I don't have time to help with the chords unfortunately, and they seem very tricky.
Thanks!
Sned hlep
need key sig and time sig for this
and the same for this
both 4/4 and start in D major. First one stays there but the second uses some eastern-sounding scales and idk what key you use for that sort of thing.
Quote from: AmpharosAndy on September 21, 2017, 06:25:23 AMboth 4/4 and start in D major. First one stays there but the second uses some eastern-sounding scales and idk what key you use for that sort of thing.
for like the whole song or does it start at a certain point? If so, when?
Quote from: BrainyLucario on September 21, 2017, 05:25:23 AMSned hlep
need key sig and time sig for this
and the same for this
I agree that "Water Town" is in D major. You can use 4/4 for the meter, but I feel a somewhat strong pull toward 2/2 meter.
"Water Town" borrows a significant number of chords from D minor (e.g. C major, B flat major--the borrowing is prominent from 0:13-0:17), but the important cadences are still in D major, and long stretches of the theme are in D major.
"Day Travel 2", though...it's in 4/4 time, but this theme is in a hinterland between D major and D minor to me, and you can make strong cases for either. It doesn't help that there are prominent G#'s at 0:05-0:08 (implying D Lydian or "D over-sharp major"), then a flip to the D Phrygian Dominant scale from 0:12-0:16 (I normally use a D minor or even G minor key signature in this case, as the Phrygian Dominant is to harmonic minor as Mixolydian is to major/Ionian).
Sections like 0:25-0:33 and 0:51-0:59 change between so many keys in so short a time that I wouldn't change key signatures at those points.
What have i signed up for.....
I think the first one works well in 4/4 or 2/4 or 2/2. And probably is in D-major.
And the second one I quite sure it should be in D-major. Makes most sense with all the sharp tones.
What about this one...i can already tell this may be really difficult to arrange let alone the key dig and time sig
Sounds like E flat major, 4/4, 8th-note swing, and 12-bar blues to me at first. It has a 4-bar intro (it has drum beats at first).
It follows the 12-bar blues less precisely later in the piece. It eventually stops using the 12-bar blues for some time.
The piece doesn't seem to switch keys, although it does use secondary dominants and end with a polluted tonic (something like Ebadd9, so an E flat chord with F on top).
EDIT: Had to correct my tempo/rhythm analysis.
Lol. The part that concerns me is what the piece is going to sound like without the drums, unless I can find a way to incorporate them, thank you,btw!
Wow, this place is dead. Anyways, I'm about halfway done with this replacement sheet and still have no idea what key this is in. It's like it switches every other measure or something.
Quote from: E. Gadd Industries on January 01, 2018, 02:09:24 PMWow, this place is dead. Anyways, I'm about halfway done with this replacement sheet and still have no idea what key this is in. It's like it switches every other measure or something.
What sheet?
Eb minor. Which I suppose should be written as D# minor.
Eb major, actually.
What, with all the F#'s and the like?
Quote from: E. Gadd Industries on January 01, 2018, 02:56:59 PMWhat, with all the F#'s and the like?
...Yes? they're chromatic neighboring tones to the G
naturals (
major thirds).
This, ladies and gentlemen, demonstrates my knowledge of music theory's inner workings. :P Thanks, Olimar (and Dudeman)!
Help plz. I think it's in 4/4 but I'm not too sure
Quick listen I'm getting 5/4 but it should be pretty easy to figure out once you start writing it down.
edit: idk different parts are counting differently but yeah just transcribe it first
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tANCbV9OJ4s&feature=youtu.be
Hi, I'm trying to transcribe this and I'm having trouble finding the key and time signature. I think it's in 5/4 and the beginning is C Major, but I'm not sure if the key changes afterwards.
Definitely 5/4; it does start in C Major, and I'd transition to E minor at 0:21.
I'm 99% sure the key is C, and that the time signature is 4/4, but when I try and arrange it, the measures don't make good "phrases" of music, so I'm hoping someone can check my work.
4/4, C maj, with swing 8s
You'd be correct on both counts--I'd notate it as C major in 4/4 time, too. There's a strong swing feel throughout (with the occasional straight 16th notes, especially when the piece quotes the Underground theme). You might be notating the beat as too short, based on your words about phrase lengths--I'd notate the intro as 2 bars long. The phrases seem to have fairly clean lengths to me (often 4 bars long). Phrases sometimes do start with pickup notes, though.
Not the right kind of thread maybe but. I have a question (regarding formatting):
If you're going to have footnotes. One at page 2 and one at page 3. Do you write the first footnote as "1)" and the second as "2)", or do write both as "1)"? Like is the first footnote "1)" and second "2)", or are both "1)" since they are on different pages?
Here's a link to the sheet music: Sheet Music (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2z45b5ah86y2osn/Requiem%20for%20the%20Gods.zip?dl=0)
edit: asked some of my music teachers, and they thought/said that you should have a "1)" at page 2 and then a "1)" at page 3 (since they are on different pages).
Hi, I was wondering what the time signature and key was for this song:
Thanks in advanced!
D minor, 4/4, 100 bpm
Thank you very much, appreciate it!
So I'm working on the title theme for Ring Fit Adventure, and I'm not sure whether I should go with 4/4 or 4/2. 4/2 looks less messy, but is it as easy to understand?
Part of the song in 4/4:
(https://i.imgur.com/Bt1WklP.jpg)
And part in 4/2:
(https://i.imgur.com/KLGZgUt.jpg)
4/2 is so rare that it's significantly harder to understand than 4/4. I'd use 4/4 and deal with the rests some other way.
Part of the reason 4/4 looks difficult to read is that the third eighth note in the RH crosses the middle of the bar. In 4/4, it is important to show a clear distinction between beat 2 and 3 as it is easier to read for the performer, and it what they are used to reading in published sheet music.
Here I've recreated the first two bars of your arrangement to show you what that would look like. In this case, you don't need a staccato on the 16th note as a 16th followed by a rest is already understood to be short, and will end up being about the same length as an eighth note with a staccato. This solution also makes it clear that the fourth and fifth notes are simple off-beats, lining up with the bassline. (I put a dotted line in the middle of the bar to show the split I'm talking about, though you wouldn't actually put this in the arrangement of course.)
(https://i.imgur.com/kUxXvrm.png)
To simplify it further, you could also beam the second eighth note to the 16th across the rest. You want to be careful about beaming across rests because it can easily get confusing if done all over the place, but in this case showing that those two notes are both part of beat 2 makes it easier to read.
(https://i.imgur.com/bxWae1I.png)
Simplifying all of the rhythms like this will go a long way towards making them more readable for the performer. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any questions!
Thanks for the advice! I'll most likely use the beaming because it condenses the arrangement enough to fit on two pages if nothing else
If anyone wants to weigh in on which version is better, the original is here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oMjY-xtTr6MuaLEqPaY7r8PbyRNZPyC0) and the version with beaming is here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AL6BcDSIM9hUV317KGo1CIEgf8UPwmbb).